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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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gene Steinberg so Chris O'Brien is

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getting used to his new home in upstate

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New York on a mountaintop I don't know

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what kind of internet connection he has

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and will have to be testing that once he

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gets used to things Kurtis Collins has

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been gracious enough to be the guest

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co-host and our main guest this week is

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none other than Jerome Clarke and I

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thought of him not too long ago when we

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had David Halperin on the show because

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we were all amongst this group the

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original teen UFO researchers those were

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the days do you remember them Jerry or

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have those memories gone away here we

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still are they must have made an

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impression on us either that or caused

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the mental illness from which we cannot

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recover creatures have happened

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something like that so posted on UFO

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updates on Facebook by our old friend

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Chris rutkowski is a copy of an issue a

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cover release of an issue from saucer

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news dated June 1965 and the reason I

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mentioned this also is because in the

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subtitle it says incorporating the UFO

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reporter which was my magazine that I

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merged with saucer news or at least gave

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him the pleasure of taking it over in

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exchange for which I had a staff

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position on saucer news as its managing

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editor so I guess I was complicit and

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some of the things he did then well not

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all the things but I'm sure you remember

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those days Jerry I'll give you the

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headline of this particular

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issue his nightcap an airforce front now

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I don't know if we've ever said this

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before Jim and I designed that headline

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together working in concert

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well you and Jim were good at stirring

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the pot I think that's basically the

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beginning and Jim's interest in UFOs

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I remember in 1959 there was an article

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using the term loosely I think by

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Michael Mann in saucer news that was an

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expose of Donald Kehoe of course was

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nightcaps most famous director and he

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used completely out of context quotes to

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make he look like some kind of it was

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pleasant clay whether you suppose be a

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dope or a charlatan but anybody who had

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read Kiyo's books knew what man was up

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to it and man knew very well what he was

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up to as well but it certainly stirred

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the pot now some people might think that

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Michael g-man was one of Jim's

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pseudonyms or something but yes there

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was indeed a Michael Mann no

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relationship to the movie director

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that's true

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that's right I shouldn't forget that he

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came from Brooklyn New York he was a big

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sci-fi fan he was also good at making

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faked tape recordings he was pretty good

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at the editing tape an editing block and

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we used like a razor blade to cut

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recorded tapes apart and change words I

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can do it much better now digitally but

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Michael was pretty good at it so yes he

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was a real character in those days yeah

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yeah I write upon that keyhole article

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when I was working on the uf1 cyclopædia

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in the 1990s and I did remember it

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reading it again was quite an experience

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it was quite shameless but it was funny

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it's all it got a deranged way when Jim

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the target his friends would rally

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around him and join and this is what

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happened there now the reason this story

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is NICAP an airforce front came about

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it's because of what happened due to my

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association with Jim Mosely where one

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day I had gone to nigh camps

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headquarters I'd been there before I met

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major Keyhoe and he was not around often

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as you well know Gerry but I talked to

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Richard Hall and we seemed to get along

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okay I returned with some friends

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including Allen Greenfield Rick hilberg

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and maybe one or two others and as soon

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as I was seen once he opened the door at

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the office of nightcap he points his

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finger at me shaking in anger you're not

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welcome here never figured out why

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except at that point it was known that I

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was working with Jim Mosely very closely

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it's saucer news as the managing editor

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which meant I sometimes even write Jim's

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editorials for him or take his ideas and

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extend them I helped them put together

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the magazine for as long as I worked

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there the following year I got a real

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job as a radio broadcaster but this was

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fun it was a nice way to get my head

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around developing my writing style and

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all that stuff so I can't say it was a

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bad experience and Jim could be a barrel

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of laughs unless you wanted to do

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serious UFO research but I'll tell you

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one more story before we go on in those

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years there was a UFO sighting at

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Waunakee reservoir Monarchy reservoir in

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New Jersey and Jim Mosely was obviously

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not averse to creating hoaxes so one day

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he calls the police at Waunakee and he

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creates a fake sighting and I'm

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listening to him from the other room and

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laughing not too loud because we didn't

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want to be heard on the phone and then

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not long thereafter there was a real

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sighting at Waunakee and I remember

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going out to the reservoir there one

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evening with Jim and his

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friends and I had never been so cold I

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was just shivering and probably because

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I didn't take a warm enough jacket

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that's all I remember it was very cold

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that was it but in this case what art

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became reality or the hoax became

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reality or he created something that was

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about the headline though I wanted to

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ask there a project Bluebook at one time

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was with I don't know if it was ever

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regarded to Holly is being legitimate

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but but with with NICAP and this has

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happened with other organizations and

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we're seeing this now with MUFON and

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some others because of their inability

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to provide answers

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people are wondering are they in on it

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are they part of the cover-up I mean

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it's almost like oh the movie backdraft

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where the one of the firemen was setting

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the fires and he was a suspect so he's

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you know since you can't solve the

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problem

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Jerry have you what's your observation

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on the psychology of that that the

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audience turning on the well-known if we

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call an authority figure but what's your

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take on that in all aspects of American

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life

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you know conspiracy theories and

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paranoia about things you know I don't

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you know I really have come to see the

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UFO groups is so incredibly marginal

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that they loom large in our lives of

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course because we were part of them or

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we are at least aware of them we read

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their publications we know people who

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belong to them feed into ourselves but

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they really had virtually no effect on

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larger society including social views of

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UFOs I think that views about UFOs and

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opinions about UFOs

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we're actually shaped by sightings which

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you know existed even if there had never

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been any UFO groups would have been

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sightings they would have gotten into

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newspapers from time to time and I'm

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just just really amazed

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that huh you know first all these UFO

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groups loom large in our lives really

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nobody else knew anything about them you

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know

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themselves in a state about all this or

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that misdeed by somebody in some UFO

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group set you follows you back ten years

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no it didn't because nobody knew

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anything about ufology yeah nobody you

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know nobody in elite media could even

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name a single organization or a single

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member single director of any group

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we'll go into more of the state of UFO

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research I guess and the impact of UFO

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organizations on the other side Jerry

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Clark is our guest the guest co-host is

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive para cast things that

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you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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sleeves for notebook computers iPad

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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a para cast aluminum water

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bottle all the stuff you go to steward

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on to the para cast com stored the para

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cast com

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what makes special is that the items are

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the best quality of great t-shirts

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fabrics and they have our official logo

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on them that's what makes them special

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multiple sizes and colors

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we even have stuff for children stuff

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for women's stuff for men we have all

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sorts of sizes like small up 2x large a

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lot good stuff that's the swag from the

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para cast to go to stored onto the para

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cast calm stop by and take a shopping

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tour if you owe money to the IRS you

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need to hear this the IRS is cracking

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down on those who owe back taxes it

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starts with a devastating letter and if

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you don't act immediately you could find

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yourself having your wages garnished or

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have a lien placed on your property but

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there's the solution tanks 10,000 can

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help avoid enforced compliance where

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these holds on your income and seizure

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of your home could become a nightmare

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that just won't end call 802 3 999 57

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to mention a lot of headaches it could

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is only three missed meals away from

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chaos those times may be near think

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about it our country faces multiple

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terrorist threats and aggressions from

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Russia and North Korea social unrest and

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violent marches yet again may lead to

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looting of stores and city shutdowns and

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a crumbling infrastructure leaves our

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power grid vulnerable to long term

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outages from a single cyberattack when

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the chaos from any one of these threats

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arises the government knows it can't

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

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comment or question about the para cast

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sent it to news at the para cast com

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that's news at the para cast calm and

299
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don't forget to visit our famous para

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cast community forums at forum dot the

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para cast calm Krista Brian is

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recovering from his cross-country trip

303
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from Arizona Cottonwood Arizona to

304
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somewhere in the wilds of New York State

305
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overlooking the Pennsylvania border on a

306
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mountaintop I start to think of the Davy

307
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Crockett song from the 1950s and Disney

308
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worn on a mountain but that was

309
00:14:46,860 --> 00:14:44,259
Tennessee so it doesn't work that way so

310
00:14:49,499 --> 00:14:46,870
we're talking about impact of UFO

311
00:14:53,249 --> 00:14:49,509
research organizations it also scandals

312
00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:53,259
involving UFO organizations and I kind

313
00:14:59,699 --> 00:14:57,430
of like to think is that in terms of

314
00:15:02,129 --> 00:14:59,709
these scandals again most people don't

315
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:02,139
know about them and when we find

316
00:15:07,439 --> 00:15:03,910
something pretty genuine like Phil and

317
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:07,449
Bragg know was a complete faker his

318
00:15:11,970 --> 00:15:09,010
claims of having a doctorate from

319
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:11,980
Harvard not true his educational claims

320
00:15:16,319 --> 00:15:13,810
not true lots of things about his life

321
00:15:19,470 --> 00:15:16,329
were faked and we wonder here then

322
00:15:21,329 --> 00:15:19,480
whether anything in the books he wrote

323
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:21,339
or co-wrote with other people were faith

324
00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:24,880
that I guess people sort of know or

325
00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:27,220
maybe a few dozen people know you know

326
00:15:30,809 --> 00:15:29,230
there been complaints about me because

327
00:15:32,579 --> 00:15:30,819
I've had financial difficulties of

328
00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:32,589
course anyone else who puts up a

329
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,360
donation link somewhere they don't

330
00:15:38,879 --> 00:15:36,160
complain about them but yeah a couple of

331
00:15:40,379 --> 00:15:38,889
dozen people got whacked out about me

332
00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:40,389
but I think most people don't care and

333
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:42,220
most people don't know it's not the

334
00:15:47,069 --> 00:15:43,839
business of anybody but you get the

335
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:47,079
point here when I was working with AOL

336
00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:49,510
then called America Online as a foreign

337
00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:52,420
leader the people who hated AOL the

338
00:15:57,329 --> 00:15:54,339
elitists shall we say on the internet

339
00:15:59,309 --> 00:15:57,339
hated me and attacked me wherever they

340
00:16:01,139 --> 00:15:59,319
could do you get this small group of

341
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:01,149
people who are worried about it and of

342
00:16:06,329 --> 00:16:04,089
course we worry hear about the follies

343
00:16:07,949 --> 00:16:06,339
at MUFON you know state directors

344
00:16:10,530 --> 00:16:07,959
leaving all sorts of complaints whether

345
00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:10,540
they dine anything at large for the

346
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:13,180
public at large they don't know they

347
00:16:18,270 --> 00:16:15,370
don't care they have important things to

348
00:16:22,110 --> 00:16:18,280
do yeah also I think there's a sort of

349
00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:22,120
sense that people are interested there's

350
00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:25,060
a stereotype that's a really unusual act

351
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:27,670
out people and anything that goes on

352
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:30,280
among them is really unusual and on the

353
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:33,010
margins of human behavior when in fact

354
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:36,340
in my long experience in yours law is

355
00:16:41,850 --> 00:16:39,610
law and Cugine ufologists and UFO people

356
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:41,860
are very ordinary people there just

357
00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:44,170
isn't anything unusual about them or

358
00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:46,420
anything that goes on in youth ology

359
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:49,420
that doesn't go on in any other human

360
00:16:54,990 --> 00:16:52,090
endeavor an interest might be a little

361
00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:55,000
eccentric a little unordinary then the

362
00:16:58,800 --> 00:16:56,860
ones that aren't ordinary well you're

363
00:17:00,840 --> 00:16:58,810
always going to find somebody who's kind

364
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:00,850
of whacked out in any enterprise

365
00:17:05,670 --> 00:17:03,250
I've just been struck as I've gotten

366
00:17:07,770 --> 00:17:05,680
older and looked back on all the things

367
00:17:11,010 --> 00:17:07,780
that I witnessed and experienced and

368
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:11,020
wrote about that it was all pretty

369
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:12,610
normal human behavior of is just an

370
00:17:18,780 --> 00:17:16,210
unusual subject it was sightings that

371
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:18,790
affected public attitudes the sightings

372
00:17:23,130 --> 00:17:20,530
are always primary people knew about

373
00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:23,140
sightings they rejected them or they

374
00:17:27,330 --> 00:17:24,670
were puzzled by them or they thought

375
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:27,340
they meant something but their opinions

376
00:17:33,630 --> 00:17:30,310
were not formed by UFO groups well the

377
00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:33,640
thing here is that nobody in the UFO

378
00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:37,150
field is really famous enough for people

379
00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:39,100
to be concerned about except a small

380
00:17:43,620 --> 00:17:41,860
number you know if you're really into

381
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:43,630
the nitty-gritty and getting into the

382
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:47,170
weeds you might care who John Ventura is

383
00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:50,110
from MUFON and this crazy thing he wrote

384
00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:55,030
on Facebook any of these issues 99.999%

385
00:18:00,300 --> 00:17:58,630
of those interested in UFOs and most

386
00:18:04,110 --> 00:18:00,310
people who were members of organizations

387
00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:04,120
don't know don't care it's not part of

388
00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:05,980
their lives again if these people were

389
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:08,950
famous really famous and they were in

390
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:11,650
the headlines you care about them not

391
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,270
because of anything they did but because

392
00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:16,240
they were famous even only for the sake

393
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:18,550
of being famous otherwise they just

394
00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:21,490
don't care I think probably in America

395
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:24,540
they've been only too modestly

396
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:28,090
mythologists when was Dahlke Oh who was

397
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:32,650
quite visible in the 1950s and then Alan

398
00:18:38,790 --> 00:18:35,710
Hynek for a few years in the yeah the

399
00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:38,800
late seventies early eighties I knew

400
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:40,780
Alan Hynek I remember walking down the

401
00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:42,490
street with him one time at the height

402
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:44,350
of his fame and people would stop month

403
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:47,890
Street and want to talk to him asking

404
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:50,650
questions but I think that's as famous

405
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:53,170
as any apologist ever gotten and I think

406
00:19:00,810 --> 00:18:55,840
that only a small number of people even

407
00:19:03,030 --> 00:19:00,820
remember Alan and fewer remember Kegel

408
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:03,040
you'd have to be a ufologist with a

409
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:08,760
historical memory to recall or very old

410
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:13,510
sadly well he hung out I think til his

411
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:16,450
90s so peaking of being very old he died

412
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:19,510
in the 1980s or something like that so I

413
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:21,850
don't know his condition towards the end

414
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:25,600
of his life like did talk to him in the

415
00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:27,490
mid seventies ain't Irv you him a couple

416
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:29,980
of times and he seemed to be alert and

417
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:32,830
pretty well Chris nowadays 85 is the new

418
00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:36,010
65 and I met him once at a muffin

419
00:19:41,490 --> 00:19:39,460
conference in 1978 and my impression was

420
00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:41,500
that he wasn't that interested in UFOs

421
00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:43,240
anymore he didn't really have too much

422
00:19:47,550 --> 00:19:45,070
to say and when he spoke it was all

423
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:47,560
really stuff out of his books that he

424
00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:50,320
wrote in the 50s you know he'd done what

425
00:19:53,910 --> 00:19:51,790
he wanted to do and he could go on to

426
00:19:56,850 --> 00:19:53,920
something else but I was so disappointed

427
00:19:59,400 --> 00:19:56,860
I was even then the little in awe that I

428
00:20:01,380 --> 00:19:59,410
was talking with Donald Kehoe but he

429
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:01,390
just ended up turned out to be an

430
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:03,970
ordinary man so much for a hero of my

431
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:06,790
childhood some of these the people that

432
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:09,280
are seeking Fame and August the the

433
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:12,880
faces of ufology today or horrendous to

434
00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:15,370
us erich von daniken and in giorgio

435
00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:17,590
Salukis if you ask the average person

436
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:19,480
those would be the names that they would

437
00:20:25,980 --> 00:20:23,530
come up with and von Daniken is the

438
00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:25,990
apologist he never really embraced

439
00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:27,940
ufology and he followed he never

440
00:20:32,820 --> 00:20:31,030
embraced him he would always say that he

441
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:32,830
wasn't against UFOs saying like that it

442
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:34,570
just wasn't what he was interested in

443
00:20:37,299 --> 00:20:35,600
the lines

444
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:37,309
I think in the public side due to the

445
00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:39,919
popularity of the television show but

446
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:41,630
but I wanted to ask you something we

447
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:42,710
were taught well we were talking about

448
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:44,570
Fame so you've worked with the number of

449
00:20:50,020 --> 00:20:47,809
researchers who are not so interested in

450
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:50,030
the spotlight means is this historical

451
00:20:54,779 --> 00:20:52,010
group still active and can you tell us

452
00:20:59,470 --> 00:20:54,789
something about that beginning in the

453
00:21:01,299 --> 00:20:59,480
1990s there got to be a lot of formal

454
00:21:04,419 --> 00:21:01,309
interest in the history of the subject

455
00:21:06,580 --> 00:21:04,429
and my encyclopedia was kind of part of

456
00:21:08,169 --> 00:21:06,590
that wave some of us got really

457
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:08,179
interested in reconstructing what had

458
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:10,970
happened not only the cases and the

459
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:13,280
official projects and the organizations

460
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:16,490
but also just generally the social

461
00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:18,590
history that's what was interesting to

462
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:21,830
me how these groups came to form what

463
00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:24,650
theories they had how they interacted

464
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:26,390
with each other what they believed and

465
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:29,120
didn't believe that was really the part

466
00:21:33,850 --> 00:21:31,850
of my UFO encyclopedia which was

467
00:21:36,970 --> 00:21:33,860
published in a number of volumes in the

468
00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:36,980
1990s that interested me the most was

469
00:21:41,289 --> 00:21:39,350
just telling these stories and other

470
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:41,299
people got interested other aspects for

471
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:44,390
example some of the classic cases poring

472
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:47,450
over the official documents doing all

473
00:21:53,289 --> 00:21:50,690
these things to really reconstruct as

474
00:21:56,649 --> 00:21:53,299
clear a picture as we could get what

475
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,659
happened since 1947 and then when the

476
00:22:01,690 --> 00:21:58,640
internet came along and was possible to

477
00:22:03,370 --> 00:22:01,700
get access to newspaper archives there

478
00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:03,380
was an explosion of interest in what

479
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:06,020
happened before 1947 you know not only

480
00:22:11,289 --> 00:22:08,330
with the great airship wave at the end

481
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,299
of the 19th century but all these things

482
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:13,280
these sightings of things in the sky

483
00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:15,530
that some of which sounded like modern

484
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:17,929
UFOs some of which didn't but there was

485
00:22:22,210 --> 00:22:19,970
just an enormous amount of research and

486
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:22,220
we have a much better understanding of

487
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:26,090
what was happening before 1947 so we're

488
00:22:32,110 --> 00:22:28,970
actively engaged here and an historical

489
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:32,120
perspective of the UFO mystery and we

490
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:34,940
have a ways to go more to come with Jean

491
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:49,130
[Music]

492
00:22:57,470 --> 00:22:52,490
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contact your youngevity distributor or

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call eight seven seven eight seven eight

518
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4203

519
00:24:03,810 --> 00:24:01,570
or go to GCN team.com hello my name is

520
00:24:05,010 --> 00:24:03,820
Marjory wildcraft I'm the founder of the

521
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:05,020
grow Network which is an online

522
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:06,970
community of people who produce their

523
00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:09,370
own food and medicine we are really in

524
00:24:13,530 --> 00:24:11,590
the backyard self-reliance if you want

525
00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:13,540
this lifestyle I suggest your first step

526
00:24:17,670 --> 00:24:15,430
be to learn some basic home medicine

527
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,680
just the other day my 18 year old son

528
00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:20,080
came to me and said mama I got a sore

529
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:21,550
throat can you fix me up

530
00:24:26,190 --> 00:24:24,130
I said sure Ryan and in about 24 hours

531
00:24:28,350 --> 00:24:26,200
he was better the best home medicine for

532
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:28,360
you to start out with is garlic it's an

533
00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:30,370
amazing natural antibiotic and I can

534
00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:32,020
show you how to use garlic to handle ear

535
00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:34,150
infections sore throats colds and flues

536
00:24:38,130 --> 00:24:36,520
as a way for you to get to a little bit

537
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,140
but more about me in the grow Network

538
00:24:42,570 --> 00:24:40,000
I've written up an easy introduction on

539
00:24:45,330 --> 00:24:42,580
how to use garlic it's at GC and

540
00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:45,340
wellness.com now the station manager

541
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:47,470
told me that I needed to say the URL at

542
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:49,510
least twice even though it feels kind of

543
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:51,430
weird but if you're interested in

544
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hi this is James Fox from chasing UFOs

599
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:07,880
you're listening to the podcast the gold

600
00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:14,210
standard of paranormal radio so we

601
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:16,460
continue here but first before we go on

602
00:27:20,530 --> 00:27:18,710
we have a second radio show called after

603
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:20,540
the para cast which is just what it

604
00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:22,850
implies for more of the power cast

605
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:24,230
because sometimes that's where it is a

606
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:26,690
continuation of the regular show and

607
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:28,850
it's only available if you subscribe to

608
00:27:34,299 --> 00:27:31,970
the power cast Plus go to plus that the

609
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:34,309
para cast comm for more information plus

610
00:27:40,030 --> 00:27:38,330
dot the para cast dot-com you also get a

611
00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:40,040
version of the show with better quality

612
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:43,880
audio free of the work is so people on

613
00:27:49,570 --> 00:27:47,210
YouTube who say yes and every minute

614
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:49,580
that's one person some really lucky

615
00:27:54,730 --> 00:27:52,090
first on YouTube why is he having one ad

616
00:27:57,370 --> 00:27:54,740
every minute of course he doesn't the

617
00:27:59,860 --> 00:27:57,380
actual duration of the show between ads

618
00:28:01,870 --> 00:27:59,870
is from 8 minutes and 50 seconds to 10

619
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:01,880
minutes and 40 seconds because I have my

620
00:28:07,270 --> 00:28:04,010
log here and it confirms what I'm saying

621
00:28:10,299 --> 00:28:07,280
is true Plus that etheric ascom and

622
00:28:13,539 --> 00:28:10,309
we're talking here about the historical

623
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:13,549
perspective of UFOs and that's a lot of

624
00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:16,570
what rock Falaise been doing these years

625
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:20,390
focusing on historic events as opposed

626
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:22,780
to current stuff or maybe current stuff

627
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:25,130
disgusts him because it never seems to

628
00:28:32,860 --> 00:28:28,490
go anywhere well you get that sometimes

629
00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:32,870
I sort of think that we know by now if

630
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:34,100
we know nothing else

631
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,910
what UFOs do and what they don't do so

632
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:39,679
we're not waiting for example for a

633
00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:42,500
landing on the White House lawn which we

634
00:28:47,409 --> 00:28:45,679
actually kind of were back in the early

635
00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:47,419
days and there was no reason not to be

636
00:28:51,610 --> 00:28:48,830
waiting for that because we didn't know

637
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:51,620
we didn't know what was possible we

638
00:28:55,630 --> 00:28:53,720
thought that might be possible yeah but

639
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:55,640
what would happen is we expected Klaatu

640
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:58,880
to come out of a flying saucer because

641
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:01,520
that is the image of landing in a park

642
00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:04,730
near the White House and he comes out

643
00:29:11,140 --> 00:29:08,260
wearing his silvery uniform yeah I think

644
00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:11,150
still either played on that idea or

645
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:14,630
encouraged it but we do know what

646
00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:16,550
was doing what they don't do it there's

647
00:29:21,010 --> 00:29:18,920
nothing surprising sightings get kind of

648
00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:21,020
boring after a while and I think that's

649
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:23,470
true of almost any anomalies they have a

650
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:26,690
limited repertoire and you realize at

651
00:29:30,130 --> 00:29:28,310
some point that okay you're going to get

652
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:30,140
so much out of it and you're not going

653
00:29:34,390 --> 00:29:31,760
to get other stuff that you're looking

654
00:29:37,630 --> 00:29:34,400
for out of it it's just going to in his

655
00:29:39,850 --> 00:29:37,640
own way just repeat itself and at a

656
00:29:41,470 --> 00:29:39,860
certain point if you're you know you can

657
00:29:44,260 --> 00:29:41,480
run out of patience or if you're

658
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:44,270
intelligent and curious you begin

659
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:47,210
thinking in terms not of a whole bunch

660
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:50,000
of random strange stories but you look

661
00:29:54,190 --> 00:29:51,530
for patterns and you try to create

662
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:54,200
hypotheses out of what you can

663
00:29:59,200 --> 00:29:56,930
demonstrate to some reasonable degree is

664
00:30:02,440 --> 00:29:59,210
going on and that's kind of where I've

665
00:30:04,540 --> 00:30:02,450
gone over the years yeah just the usual

666
00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:04,550
sightings aren't terribly interesting to

667
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:06,740
be because I've read some version of

668
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:08,810
them or heard some version of them all

669
00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:11,450
before in many kinds before but what

670
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:13,670
does it mean how does this work even if

671
00:30:19,690 --> 00:30:16,090
you can't explain it you can at least

672
00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:19,700
figure out to some extent how it works

673
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:22,940
and once you've discerned how it works

674
00:30:28,150 --> 00:30:25,700
and you can start making hypotheses

675
00:30:29,530 --> 00:30:28,160
about the phenomenon I'm talking about

676
00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:29,540
the kind of the arc of my own

677
00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:33,070
intellectual engagement with ufology and

678
00:30:38,890 --> 00:30:36,350
anomalies generally well the thing here

679
00:30:41,050 --> 00:30:38,900
is once you have a few sightings you

680
00:30:44,020 --> 00:30:41,060
pretty much know a good deal about

681
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:44,030
what's going on and if you take a copy

682
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:46,490
of the book flying saucers from outer

683
00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:49,310
space from major Donald Kehoe and to

684
00:30:54,730 --> 00:30:51,830
that something about abductions for

685
00:30:58,840 --> 00:30:54,740
example and you basically have the

686
00:31:01,120 --> 00:30:58,850
entire field summarized and most of the

687
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:01,130
rest of the books you read are just

688
00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:03,410
compendiums of sightings in fact going

689
00:31:08,110 --> 00:31:06,230
back to Jim Mosely he would always write

690
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,120
summaries of sightings and I did too

691
00:31:13,390 --> 00:31:10,480
when I worked for the magazine from

692
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:13,400
newspapers we just rewrite them and

693
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:15,910
credit the newspaper as a source and

694
00:31:20,890 --> 00:31:19,610
then he would tell me every so often you

695
00:31:22,450 --> 00:31:20,900
know I'm really sick and tired of these

696
00:31:24,460 --> 00:31:22,460
sightings I'm just doing it because our

697
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,470
readers want to read about it he

698
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:26,640
basically had enough in the 60s

699
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:29,450
because most of what is still going on

700
00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:33,120
had already occurred I think that there

701
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:36,390
was some shift in the way people express

702
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:40,190
you have follows beginning in the 1960s

703
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:44,910
in the 1960s there were these stranger

704
00:31:51,169 --> 00:31:48,240
and stranger stories we Hellenic coined

705
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:51,179
the phrase high strangeness and there

706
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:54,330
may be just a fundamental difference

707
00:32:04,330 --> 00:31:58,410
between say your landing trays case your

708
00:32:08,090 --> 00:32:04,340
radar visual and the sorts of cases that

709
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:08,100
involve just really extraordinary claims

710
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:12,510
that are not verifiable even if you have

711
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:15,230
a witness who is sane and sincere and

712
00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:17,730
probably experienced something such as

713
00:32:23,030 --> 00:32:20,700
he explained but I began to wonder at a

714
00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:23,040
certain point whether you know the

715
00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:25,980
abduction phenomenon was even related

716
00:32:30,919 --> 00:32:29,070
except by appearances to the you know

717
00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:30,929
the daylight disc phenomenon the

718
00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:33,270
daylight disc phenomenon is where the

719
00:32:38,180 --> 00:32:35,340
extra-terrestrial hypothesis begins

720
00:32:40,610 --> 00:32:38,190
because daylight discs are you know

721
00:32:43,850 --> 00:32:40,620
logically thought to be extraterrestrial

722
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:43,860
spaceships and they show up on radar

723
00:32:48,260 --> 00:32:46,110
they give evidence of some kind of

724
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:48,270
advanced technology all these things you

725
00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:51,150
would expect of a technology based

726
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:53,940
visiting alien intelligence but what do

727
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:56,000
you do with men in black and and

728
00:33:01,039 --> 00:32:58,410
abductions and things like this just

729
00:33:02,780 --> 00:33:01,049
these other the otherworldly journeys

730
00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:02,790
all these things to get wilder and

731
00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:05,190
crazier and crazier as time goes on

732
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:09,299
and yet yield no evidence comparable to

733
00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:11,850
raid our visual evidence or the sort of

734
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:14,100
hardcore evidence that you can get out

735
00:33:19,780 --> 00:33:15,990
of Close Encounters of the second kind

736
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:19,790
then radar visuals you know is something

737
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:22,080
fundamentally different going on and

738
00:33:27,409 --> 00:33:24,240
that is one of the conclusions I

739
00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:27,419
eventually arrived at I was close to

740
00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:29,820
Budd Hopkins was a good friend of mine

741
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:32,460
and loved the guy but eventually we just

742
00:33:37,580 --> 00:33:34,770
came to see the abduction phenomenon

743
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:37,590
very differently Budd blade that it was

744
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:40,320
a logical extension of

745
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:42,809
Trust lipolysis and that in fact it was

746
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,289
revealing why the aliens had come to

747
00:33:51,220 --> 00:33:48,720
visit the earth to start with and I did

748
00:33:53,629 --> 00:33:51,230
not draw that conclusion at all

749
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:53,639
eventually I just completely distance

750
00:34:00,169 --> 00:33:56,970
myself from it well the thing I see with

751
00:34:03,620 --> 00:34:00,179
that is if there is a logical reason for

752
00:34:06,259 --> 00:34:03,630
them to abduct Earthlings how many times

753
00:34:08,569 --> 00:34:06,269
do you have to do it before you've

754
00:34:10,819 --> 00:34:08,579
accomplished that task if it's a genetic

755
00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:10,829
thing you don't need to do invasive

756
00:34:18,430 --> 00:34:14,220
things to take a DNA sample and

757
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:18,440
certainly some civilization with amazing

758
00:34:26,419 --> 00:34:22,079
medical technology could probably do

759
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:26,429
everything on a few samples of the local

760
00:34:34,899 --> 00:34:31,609
populace and not even touch them yeah

761
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:34,909
certain point it just doesn't make sense

762
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:38,089
and you know these seem to be real

763
00:34:43,369 --> 00:34:41,369
experiences people are their experience

764
00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:43,379
vividly they're not just like dreams

765
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:45,710
they're really extraordinary

766
00:34:54,169 --> 00:34:51,089
terrifying experiences but they're

767
00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:54,179
probably not what they seem to be they

768
00:35:01,609 --> 00:34:58,710
may be related to you know a much older

769
00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:01,619
tradition of supernatural kidnappings

770
00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:05,190
but people are taken by otherworldly

771
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:08,220
entities of various identities usually

772
00:35:15,130 --> 00:35:11,250
identities make sense in the context of

773
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:15,140
cultural expectation and belief and

774
00:35:20,930 --> 00:35:18,000
subjected to frightening and dignities

775
00:35:23,710 --> 00:35:20,940
of various kinds I think that these

776
00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:23,720
things are real they're extraordinary

777
00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:27,990
they're culture bound and they take on

778
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:31,380
the coloration of a society's idea of

779
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:34,410
what a supernatural kidnapping another

780
00:35:41,809 --> 00:35:37,950
worldly kidnapping would be like just

781
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:41,819
playing out with UFO coloration well the

782
00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:43,980
thing you mentioned here of course is

783
00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:45,599
the interaction with some kind of

784
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:48,060
outside force now when we had David

785
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:52,320
Halpern on the power cast a couple

786
00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:53,970
and for the first half of the show we

787
00:35:57,650 --> 00:35:56,220
had erich von daniken and i'll ask you

788
00:36:00,740 --> 00:35:57,660
about ancient astronauts though I get

789
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:00,750
the sense here that those stories may be

790
00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:03,510
based on similar experiences but in any

791
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:08,150
case he said Barney Hill was recalling

792
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:11,010
the nightmare kind of a racial memory

793
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:14,210
the nightmare of the african-american

794
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:17,040
slave experience being kidnapped in

795
00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:21,920
Africa brought here by these evil people

796
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:26,700
who are using them as human cargo and

797
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,520
that was something that he was recalling

798
00:36:33,260 --> 00:36:30,960
and maybe he was recalling what his

799
00:36:36,350 --> 00:36:33,270
parents had told him or his grandparents

800
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:36,360
about their history let's get let's get

801
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:37,890
to that in a moment we've got Jerome

802
00:36:48,669 --> 00:36:40,050
Clarke Kurt Collins Jean Steinberg

803
00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:52,610
you are listening to GCN

804
00:37:01,490 --> 00:36:58,980
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[Music]

903
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:07,920
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

904
00:41:11,959 --> 00:41:10,049
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

905
00:41:14,109 --> 00:41:11,969
disclosure and you are listening to the

906
00:41:25,130 --> 00:41:14,119
para cast the gold standard of

907
00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:25,140
paranormal radio let's continue with

908
00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:28,430
what I said about David Halperin and his

909
00:41:35,150 --> 00:41:31,140
perceptions about Barney Hill what do

910
00:41:37,759 --> 00:41:35,160
you think Jerry I don't I mean I mean no

911
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:37,769
disrespect to David who is a wonderful

912
00:41:44,089 --> 00:41:40,650
guy in a lifelong friend and I like

913
00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:44,099
David a nice very smart guy but this is

914
00:41:50,209 --> 00:41:46,380
really a simplistic and reductionist

915
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:50,219
explanation these racial dramas do not

916
00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:57,119
play out in the very numerous we have in

917
00:42:02,569 --> 00:42:00,420
which the hill experience is very

918
00:42:05,509 --> 00:42:02,579
typical there's nothing extraordinary

919
00:42:08,329 --> 00:42:05,519
about the hill case except that it was

920
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:08,339
the first one that became widely known

921
00:42:15,289 --> 00:42:11,609
even the missing time aspect of it goes

922
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:15,299
back into the 18th and 19th century and

923
00:42:21,229 --> 00:42:17,910
supernatural kidnap story is where I was

924
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:21,239
imagining aliens I think there's a

925
00:42:28,009 --> 00:42:25,529
tendency among academics skeptics and

926
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:28,019
that would describe David to make

927
00:42:33,709 --> 00:42:30,930
extraordinary experiences as small as we

928
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:33,719
are that they have to be contained

929
00:42:38,269 --> 00:42:35,729
within existing knowledge or we can't

930
00:42:39,859 --> 00:42:38,279
talk about them and I think that one

931
00:42:42,349 --> 00:42:39,869
thing we know about these experiences

932
00:42:44,809 --> 00:42:42,359
they are not contained within existing

933
00:42:47,420 --> 00:42:44,819
knowledge I think we're right to be

934
00:42:49,309 --> 00:42:47,430
skeptical about their content but I

935
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:49,319
don't think the right to be skeptical

936
00:42:53,689 --> 00:42:52,319
about their extraordinary nature that

937
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:53,699
we're dealing with something that is

938
00:43:00,559 --> 00:42:57,690
beyond current knowledge and it may be

939
00:43:02,739 --> 00:43:00,569
way behind current knowledge but it

940
00:43:06,259 --> 00:43:02,749
isn't reducible to some kind of

941
00:43:09,229 --> 00:43:06,269
reductionist formula I'm just surprised

942
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:09,239
that David which suggests that that just

943
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:13,890
that me is kind of a non-starter the

944
00:43:19,690 --> 00:43:17,609
hills had a very typical but we came to

945
00:43:23,020 --> 00:43:19,700
know as a typical abduction

946
00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:23,030
and there was nothing unusual about it

947
00:43:28,190 --> 00:43:25,470
except for the social fact that it was

948
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:28,200
an interracial couple which I from

949
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:30,450
everything I can see since most couples

950
00:43:36,110 --> 00:43:33,210
who undergo abduction experiences aren't

951
00:43:37,850 --> 00:43:36,120
interracial most of the toys we have my

952
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:37,860
from white people actually that may just

953
00:43:44,050 --> 00:43:42,270
be an artifact of reporting I just don't

954
00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:44,060
think that you can reduce it to

955
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:45,630
something like that

956
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:48,330
it just seems puzzling to me that David

957
00:43:53,330 --> 00:43:50,250
would think that he had somehow office

958
00:43:58,820 --> 00:43:53,340
is that kind of that just seems to me

959
00:44:00,740 --> 00:43:58,830
like inspired you mentioned a number of

960
00:44:03,530 --> 00:44:00,750
things as a conversation went along that

961
00:44:05,690 --> 00:44:03,540
they were each worthy of closer

962
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:05,700
examination and one thing I wanted to

963
00:44:11,060 --> 00:44:08,250
mention was the you mentioned the

964
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:11,070
artifact reporting and you you were

965
00:44:14,990 --> 00:44:13,050
talking about daylight discs earlier and

966
00:44:17,540 --> 00:44:15,000
I think it's worth mentioning that the

967
00:44:19,550 --> 00:44:17,550
fact that these weren't lights in the

968
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:19,560
sky this is something seen and in the

969
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:21,920
air during daylight by a pilot who was

970
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:24,420
experienced and reputable you know that

971
00:44:29,570 --> 00:44:26,570
was what made the the Flying Saucer

972
00:44:31,850 --> 00:44:29,580
signings newsworthy to begin with and

973
00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:31,860
other pilots songs so this was different

974
00:44:35,660 --> 00:44:33,660
than some of the later signings that

975
00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:35,670
sort of capitalized on that where they

976
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:38,100
saw a saucer and the other thing I

977
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:40,290
wanted to bring up that you'd mentioned

978
00:44:45,650 --> 00:44:43,290
was this supernatural aspect I was I

979
00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:45,660
wanted to ask you if some of these other

980
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:47,430
ideas they had whether they're

981
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:50,970
abductions or crop circles or even there

982
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:53,310
were pitted windshields in the 50s that

983
00:44:58,250 --> 00:44:55,350
people were connecting with with flying

984
00:45:00,290 --> 00:44:58,260
saucers well I guess I'm asking based on

985
00:45:03,590 --> 00:45:00,300
my own bias here I think these other

986
00:45:05,540 --> 00:45:03,600
elements being brought in with UFOs sort

987
00:45:07,550 --> 00:45:05,550
of diminish each of them even if they

988
00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:07,560
are individually worthy of study I think

989
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:09,720
they suffer by being lumped together I

990
00:45:25,130 --> 00:45:13,410
agree yes I think that's true I think

991
00:45:31,970 --> 00:45:28,610
and it got no end of criticism for that

992
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:31,980
and I'm sure that the young Jerome Clark

993
00:45:35,350 --> 00:45:32,810
was just

994
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:35,360
so close anybody about that but in

995
00:45:42,010 --> 00:45:38,560
retrospect I begin to understand

996
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:42,020
nightcaps point of view it was always

997
00:45:47,020 --> 00:45:44,960
claimed that NICAP was concerned about

998
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:47,030
respectability more than anything else

999
00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:49,250
well certainly nightcap was concerned

1000
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:51,380
about respectability it wanted to be

1001
00:45:57,310 --> 00:45:54,110
heard and wanted influential people to

1002
00:46:00,360 --> 00:45:57,320
hear it so that influential people with

1003
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:00,370
power could generate real UFO

1004
00:46:06,340 --> 00:46:03,530
investigations finance things Lord but I

1005
00:46:10,090 --> 00:46:06,350
think that night cap was right to insist

1006
00:46:13,420 --> 00:46:10,100
that the real evidence was in the radar

1007
00:46:15,730 --> 00:46:13,430
visual cases the multi witness cases the

1008
00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:15,740
physical trace cases those kinds of

1009
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:18,590
things that suggested being or

1010
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:21,010
technology something that was ultimately

1011
00:46:26,350 --> 00:46:24,170
verifiable evidence from which you could

1012
00:46:28,330 --> 00:46:26,360
learn you could take it into a

1013
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:28,340
laboratory you could study it

1014
00:46:33,130 --> 00:46:31,610
scientifically that was the real data if

1015
00:46:36,100 --> 00:46:33,140
you were talking about the possibility

1016
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:36,110
that the earth was under visitation from

1017
00:46:41,530 --> 00:46:38,720
another civilization that's where the

1018
00:46:45,010 --> 00:46:41,540
evidence was and all the other stuff but

1019
00:46:48,010 --> 00:46:45,020
just noise you can criticize nycap in

1020
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:48,020
individual cases and so on but I think

1021
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:50,810
that the general point was right that

1022
00:46:56,220 --> 00:46:54,290
when you study UFO data you have first

1023
00:46:59,170 --> 00:46:56,230
of all have to define what the data are

1024
00:47:01,660 --> 00:46:59,180
do you think that anything that somebody

1025
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:01,670
says it has something like a flying

1026
00:47:09,220 --> 00:47:05,690
saucer in it is a UFO case is you upload

1027
00:47:11,860 --> 00:47:09,230
data if you look at this critically I

1028
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:11,870
think that presumption begins to break

1029
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:14,450
down and we really are dealing with

1030
00:47:18,910 --> 00:47:16,400
different things that we've just thrown

1031
00:47:22,450 --> 00:47:18,920
together as UFO data

1032
00:47:24,850 --> 00:47:22,460
I think the UFO data probably are

1033
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:24,860
exactly what they first were thought to

1034
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:28,640
be the hard evidence cases by pilots and

1035
00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:31,250
people like that scientists astronomers

1036
00:47:41,140 --> 00:47:35,510
and that's what where you look if you're

1037
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:41,150
looking for proof of a technical anomaly

1038
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:43,910
but you can collect as many abduction

1039
00:47:48,850 --> 00:47:46,400
stories or man black stories or other

1040
00:47:51,730 --> 00:47:48,860
the journeys as you want and all your

1041
00:47:53,290 --> 00:47:51,740
going to get a bunch of stories most of

1042
00:47:55,930 --> 00:47:53,300
these stories will be by people who

1043
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:55,940
appear to be sincere insane but they

1044
00:48:01,210 --> 00:47:57,680
won't get you anywhere and the stories

1045
00:48:03,460 --> 00:48:01,220
don't even really go here in the way you

1046
00:48:06,190 --> 00:48:03,470
would expect them to do if they were an

1047
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:06,200
objective phenomenon so maybe an AI camp

1048
00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:08,570
had a point after all there was an

1049
00:48:14,110 --> 00:48:11,300
article in saucer news by the way which

1050
00:48:18,610 --> 00:48:14,120
was roughly titled how close will major

1051
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:18,620
Keyhoe allow a UFO to get and that kind

1052
00:48:23,950 --> 00:48:20,290
of follows what you just said which is

1053
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:23,960
that they tended to downplay anything

1054
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:25,940
related to a contact and certainly it

1055
00:48:31,330 --> 00:48:28,400
took him a while to even get into

1056
00:48:32,860 --> 00:48:31,340
coverage of Betty and Barney Hill so

1057
00:48:34,180 --> 00:48:32,870
that was one of the issues but I wanted

1058
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:34,190
to shoot back to a couple of other

1059
00:48:40,260 --> 00:48:37,730
subjects before we get to 1897 and some

1060
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:40,270
new material you've written for 14 times

1061
00:48:45,460 --> 00:48:43,280
since we had Erich von däniken on a

1062
00:48:47,110 --> 00:48:45,470
couple of weeks ago on the power cast

1063
00:48:51,130 --> 00:48:47,120
for the first time although we've

1064
00:48:53,620 --> 00:48:51,140
discussed his main topic before ancient

1065
00:48:57,310 --> 00:48:53,630
aliens what's your perception of that

1066
00:49:00,370 --> 00:48:57,320
our vey telling of experiences contact

1067
00:49:05,410 --> 00:49:00,380
related experiences in the terms of

1068
00:49:08,650 --> 00:49:05,420
ancient man that are similar to episodes

1069
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:08,660
of possible contact with aliens now not

1070
00:49:13,300 --> 00:49:10,850
in the way that von Daniken writes about

1071
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:13,310
it you know I think that people have

1072
00:49:18,370 --> 00:49:15,890
always had extraordinary experiences I

1073
00:49:21,730 --> 00:49:18,380
mean that's as part of being human and

1074
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:21,740
and any place you look in human history

1075
00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:24,790
whatever tribe or group or nation

1076
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:28,910
whatever they've had what we generally

1077
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:30,730
call anomalous or supernatural

1078
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:34,700
experiences and I think that it's just

1079
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:39,440
wise not to oh what's the word I'm

1080
00:49:48,970 --> 00:49:45,290
looking for not to try to cram them all

1081
00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:48,980
into a box because they're not gonna fit

1082
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:53,510
into one pocket I think David Halpern in

1083
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:56,330
his discussion because he obviously is a

1084
00:49:59,089 --> 00:49:58,880
biblical scholar and he was dissecting a

1085
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:59,099
lot

1086
00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:01,920
what von Daniken said is that he was

1087
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,470
reaching then obviously some of those

1088
00:50:10,210 --> 00:50:07,200
older texts can have different meanings

1089
00:50:13,099 --> 00:50:10,220
depending on the translation you read or

1090
00:50:16,099 --> 00:50:13,109
whether you try to attach certain

1091
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:16,109
terminology to modern terminology so in

1092
00:50:20,509 --> 00:50:18,900
this case he was reaching and he came up

1093
00:50:22,279 --> 00:50:20,519
with a theory that maybe he thought was

1094
00:50:26,809 --> 00:50:22,289
original but of course it was fairly old

1095
00:50:29,989 --> 00:50:26,819
old news in the UFO field well David is

1096
00:50:32,809 --> 00:50:29,999
one of the people who are qualified to

1097
00:50:35,390 --> 00:50:32,819
judge what these narratives are about I

1098
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:35,400
mean there's a real sophisticated study

1099
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:38,190
of the ancient world and it is not

1100
00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:41,369
represented in Bonn Donegan's work and

1101
00:50:45,229 --> 00:50:43,049
if you want to know about the ancient

1102
00:50:46,940 --> 00:50:45,239
world what was going on there and what

1103
00:50:47,539 --> 00:50:46,950
people believed and how they saw the

1104
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,549
world

1105
00:50:54,460 --> 00:50:49,920
it's scholars like David Halpern you

1106
00:50:57,170 --> 00:50:54,470
want to turn to not vana kind of a

1107
00:51:00,289 --> 00:50:57,180
hobbyist I call these people barstool

1108
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:00,299
Ranchers well I think that Monica and my

1109
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:08,960
experience and kind of at the end of the

1110
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:12,180
segment he was admitting well this is my

1111
00:51:16,759 --> 00:51:13,920
interpretation of it and he really had

1112
00:51:18,709 --> 00:51:16,769
nothing more to offer than that again it

1113
00:51:21,170 --> 00:51:18,719
goes back to that this is how I look at

1114
00:51:24,289 --> 00:51:21,180
it and fine but as you say he's a

1115
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:24,299
gentleman very nice guy and I enjoy the

1116
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:26,400
session we've got more to come with

1117
00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:30,210
jerome clark and kurt collins you're in

1118
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:43,690
thank you for listening to GCN

1119
00:51:49,870 --> 00:51:47,410
be sure to visit GCN live.com today

1120
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:49,880
attack of the rock AIDS has been

1121
00:51:53,620 --> 00:51:51,650
well-received by critics and readers

1122
00:51:56,410 --> 00:51:53,630
alike it's a thrill a minute story

1123
00:51:58,750 --> 00:51:56,420
you'll never forget a former US military

1124
00:52:01,030 --> 00:51:58,760
intelligence officer is haunted by

1125
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:01,040
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

1126
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:03,680
pleading for his help after a terrible

1127
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:06,410
battle in outer space but the dreams

1128
00:52:10,510 --> 00:52:08,690
turn out to be true and thrust him into

1129
00:52:13,150 --> 00:52:10,520
a telepathic love affair with a woman

1130
00:52:15,550 --> 00:52:13,160
whose faraway planet is intent on

1131
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:15,560
destroying the earth and now the

1132
00:52:20,829 --> 00:52:18,410
gripping tale continues in the coming of

1133
00:52:23,470 --> 00:52:20,839
the protectors it's the second book of

1134
00:52:25,660 --> 00:52:23,480
the Rockets trilogy a galaxy spanning

1135
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:25,670
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

1136
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:28,730
against powerful fanatical enemies that

1137
00:52:32,020 --> 00:52:30,650
threaten the lives of freedom loving

1138
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:32,030
beings everywhere

1139
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:35,119
attack of the rockets and the coming of

1140
00:52:40,930 --> 00:52:37,970
the protectors classic science fiction

1141
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:40,940
at its best available now for more

1142
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:44,240
details visit Rocko is calm that's our

1143
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:51,680
Ock o IDs calm hear that that's the

1144
00:52:58,270 --> 00:52:53,690
sound of a house being trashed while a

1145
00:53:01,240 --> 00:52:58,280
gang of thieves ransacked the place will

1146
00:53:03,370 --> 00:53:01,250
be destroyed this year resolved not to

1147
00:53:05,950 --> 00:53:03,380
be the next victim of a break-in go to

1148
00:53:07,930 --> 00:53:05,960
fake tv.com and discover a device that

1149
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:07,940
creates the illusion someone inside is

1150
00:53:13,089 --> 00:53:10,250
watching TV even with your miles away

1151
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:13,099
security is a mindset and fake TV should

1152
00:53:18,599 --> 00:53:15,440
be part of your security solution be

1153
00:53:20,290 --> 00:53:18,609
vigilant but not fearful fake tv.com

1154
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it's a no-brainer

1155
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need period you need a water filter that

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1158
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1160
00:53:33,220 --> 00:53:31,490
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1161
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1163
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1164
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1165
00:53:44,020 --> 00:53:41,869
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1166
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:44,030
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1167
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:45,920
berkey water filters calm that's one

1168
00:54:04,319 --> 00:53:59,980
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1169
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:04,329
standard of paranormal radio and now

1170
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:13,280
here's Jane Steinberg alright

1171
00:54:18,430 --> 00:54:14,930
ancient aliens let's set that aside

1172
00:54:21,069 --> 00:54:18,440
let's set aside abductions when we think

1173
00:54:23,890 --> 00:54:21,079
of UFO waves we have the modern UFO era

1174
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:23,900
beginning in 1947 plus things like Foo

1175
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:26,569
Fighters and ghost rockets in the 40s

1176
00:54:34,569 --> 00:54:29,690
and we have other cases through the

1177
00:54:36,970 --> 00:54:34,579
years but the 1897 airships seem to have

1178
00:54:40,059 --> 00:54:36,980
like a special status and when I read

1179
00:54:44,890 --> 00:54:40,069
about them I'm thinking of maybe a Jules

1180
00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:44,900
Verne novel or HG Wells the very

1181
00:54:51,900 --> 00:54:47,510
earliest science fiction so tell us

1182
00:54:55,180 --> 00:54:51,910
about 1897 in this new article he wrote

1183
00:54:59,549 --> 00:54:55,190
well the mystery airships were actually

1184
00:55:02,859 --> 00:54:59,559
an international phenomenon that began

1185
00:55:08,289 --> 00:55:02,869
with sporadic sightings perhaps as far

1186
00:55:10,059 --> 00:55:08,299
back as the 1860s and this is one of the

1187
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:10,069
things we know a lot more about now than

1188
00:55:17,049 --> 00:55:14,480
we did before the Internet age and it

1189
00:55:20,620 --> 00:55:17,059
continued at least into these through

1190
00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:20,630
the nineteen teens but the epicenter of

1191
00:55:27,329 --> 00:55:23,150
the American part of the wave of course

1192
00:55:32,140 --> 00:55:27,339
began in California in November 1896 and

1193
00:55:34,839 --> 00:55:32,150
kind of petered out by the later part of

1194
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,849
May 1897 almost sporadic sightings

1195
00:55:40,569 --> 00:55:36,799
continued throughout the year and into

1196
00:55:42,849 --> 00:55:40,579
later years as we now know but everybody

1197
00:55:45,970 --> 00:55:42,859
who knows the history of UFOs knows

1198
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:45,980
about the 1897 waves of people were

1199
00:55:52,690 --> 00:55:48,290
reporting seeing things that look like

1200
00:55:53,530 --> 00:55:52,700
airships or dirigible which are lighter

1201
00:55:56,410 --> 00:55:53,540
than air

1202
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:56,420
controlled vehicles like you know that

1203
00:56:00,609 --> 00:55:57,920
you can use to get into a nest some

1204
00:56:03,549 --> 00:56:00,619
control over even though it was lighter

1205
00:56:06,370 --> 00:56:03,559
than air and it was a way to negotiate

1206
00:56:09,330 --> 00:56:06,380
your way through the sky without being

1207
00:56:12,430 --> 00:56:09,340
entirely driven by the berries of

1208
00:56:17,110 --> 00:56:12,440
but there were no durables in the united

1209
00:56:19,930 --> 00:56:17,120
states in 1897 virtuals began flying in

1210
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:19,940
the late 18th century in France and

1211
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:22,250
Germany but in fact with the Wright

1212
00:56:27,580 --> 00:56:24,050
brothers invented heavier than air

1213
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:27,590
flight in December nineteen three but it

1214
00:56:30,910 --> 00:56:29,510
was only after heavier than their

1215
00:56:34,030 --> 00:56:30,920
vehicles were flying in the United

1216
00:56:36,090 --> 00:56:34,040
States that dirigible flew in the United

1217
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:36,100
States the dirt ripples were actually

1218
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:39,970
came late to America very late that

1219
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:43,040
historical back on is necessary before

1220
00:56:46,810 --> 00:56:44,930
you start talking about what was going

1221
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:46,820
on nonetheless there were these

1222
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:49,970
sightings of Jesus fantastic durable

1223
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:52,640
like objects they were called airships

1224
00:56:57,610 --> 00:56:54,770
people claimed to see them flying

1225
00:57:00,690 --> 00:56:57,620
overhead in some cases people claimed

1226
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:00,700
they had landed and they had interacted

1227
00:57:08,650 --> 00:57:04,850
with the occupants and mostly they

1228
00:57:09,850 --> 00:57:08,660
talked about occupant crews that

1229
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:09,860
described themselves as Americans

1230
00:57:15,130 --> 00:57:13,370
explained who they were and when they

1231
00:57:16,570 --> 00:57:15,140
were going to announce their invention

1232
00:57:19,930 --> 00:57:16,580
to the world when they were going to

1233
00:57:23,380 --> 00:57:19,940
take a patent office and then there are

1234
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:23,390
other stories that are very hard to

1235
00:57:28,750 --> 00:57:26,330
believe and seem more like jokes that

1236
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:28,760
claim the airships were piloted by

1237
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:32,450
Martians to figure out what was going on

1238
00:57:36,790 --> 00:57:33,890
you have to work your way through the

1239
00:57:39,340 --> 00:57:36,800
1897 American press which was not the

1240
00:57:41,980 --> 00:57:39,350
modern American press it was just like a

1241
00:57:45,330 --> 00:57:41,990
free-for-all it was like everyone

1242
00:57:48,250 --> 00:57:45,340
publishing the National Enquirer yeah

1243
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:48,260
jokes like jokes though if you were

1244
00:57:54,250 --> 00:57:51,710
living in some village in Kansas say and

1245
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:54,260
you read a local account of an airship

1246
00:58:00,820 --> 00:57:58,250
and its occupants if you read it now you

1247
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:00,830
wouldn't get the jokes but sometimes

1248
00:58:06,100 --> 00:58:04,130
like you know just a parody of local

1249
00:58:08,350 --> 00:58:06,110
characters and if you knew the

1250
00:58:09,010 --> 00:58:08,360
characters that the story is really

1251
00:58:11,410 --> 00:58:09,020
funny

1252
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:11,420
so you have to work your way through a

1253
00:58:17,940 --> 00:58:13,580
lot of this stuff and I got interested

1254
00:58:20,410 --> 00:58:17,950
actively in investigating 1897 airships

1255
00:58:23,050 --> 00:58:20,420
in the 1960s

1256
00:58:24,820 --> 00:58:23,060
so I spent I've always been intrigued by

1257
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:24,830
spent decades trying to figure out what

1258
00:58:32,530 --> 00:58:28,730
was going on it began to unravel to me

1259
00:58:36,790 --> 00:58:32,540
when I realized that not all stories

1260
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:36,800
about landings and American crews were

1261
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,370
inventions that some of these could very

1262
00:58:46,650 --> 00:58:43,040
well have been people's real experiences

1263
00:58:50,380 --> 00:58:46,660
even if there were no American flown

1264
00:58:54,460 --> 00:58:50,390
airships in 1890 nonetheless these

1265
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:54,470
experiences were vividly perceived by

1266
00:58:58,740 --> 00:58:56,930
honest people to investigate that

1267
00:59:01,000 --> 00:58:58,750
possibility I was going over the

1268
00:59:03,150 --> 00:59:01,010
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

1269
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:03,160
old clippings that have been recovered

1270
00:59:11,770 --> 00:59:06,890
describing the airship wave and it was

1271
00:59:15,550 --> 00:59:11,780
one story that struck me it was on April

1272
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:15,560
19 1897 about 11 p.m.

1273
00:59:23,500 --> 00:59:19,490
Beaumont Texas this guy named Lagaan and

1274
00:59:26,020 --> 00:59:23,510
his son Charlie were returning home late

1275
00:59:27,730 --> 00:59:26,030
in the evening to their ranch which was

1276
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:27,740
just a house side of the city of

1277
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:30,770
Beaumont which is in East Texas and they

1278
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:34,610
saw some lights in a field some distance

1279
00:59:38,740 --> 00:59:37,250
away and there they were not supposed to

1280
00:59:41,620 --> 00:59:38,750
be any lights there so they went to

1281
00:59:45,490 --> 00:59:41,630
investigate they discovered this giant

1282
00:59:51,550 --> 00:59:45,500
airship with four big wings on the

1283
00:59:56,830 --> 00:59:51,560
ground and mr. Lagaan JR Lagaan engaged

1284
00:59:59,200 --> 00:59:56,840
this crew in conversation and the crew

1285
01:00:02,650 --> 00:59:59,210
members led by a man named Wilson no

1286
01:00:04,750 --> 01:00:02,660
first name said they needed water so he

1287
01:00:07,150 --> 01:00:04,760
invited him into the house to collect

1288
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:07,160
water for their flight help fly the

1289
01:00:12,190 --> 01:00:09,440
airship and so they were in the house

1290
01:00:15,250 --> 01:00:12,200
for a while and was this conversation

1291
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:15,260
that went on and Wilson told where they

1292
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:17,570
were from that they developed these

1293
01:00:22,750 --> 01:00:20,000
ships in the Midwest and they were going

1294
01:00:24,010 --> 01:00:22,760
to announce her invention to course then

1295
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:24,020
they went back in the ship and

1296
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:26,510
apparently at some point they invited

1297
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:29,690
Lagaan into the ship to look at what the

1298
01:00:35,170 --> 01:00:33,530
interior look like so this is just an

1299
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:35,180
interesting story but there's no

1300
01:00:39,460 --> 01:00:36,410
verification

1301
01:00:41,710 --> 01:00:39,470
but then I discovered a story that was

1302
01:00:44,109 --> 01:00:41,720
published in the New Orleans paper about

1303
01:00:50,890 --> 01:00:44,119
a week or two later it's about a week

1304
01:00:54,279 --> 01:00:50,900
later where rabbi levy of Beaumont said

1305
01:00:58,569 --> 01:00:54,289
that recently when an airship had landed

1306
01:01:02,650 --> 01:00:58,579
near Beaumont he had sped to the scene

1307
01:01:05,170 --> 01:01:02,660
had been in the house with the occupants

1308
01:01:08,529 --> 01:01:05,180
and he talked with him and he said he

1309
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:08,539
was so rattled by the experience that he

1310
01:01:12,999 --> 01:01:10,670
couldn't even remember exactly what they

1311
01:01:15,249 --> 01:01:13,009
talked about but he's seen the airship

1312
01:01:19,839 --> 01:01:15,259
he had talked with its crew there's no

1313
01:01:22,420 --> 01:01:19,849
mention of JR Lagaan but there was only

1314
01:01:26,349 --> 01:01:22,430
one airship landing that happened in

1315
01:01:29,009 --> 01:01:26,359
Beaumont Texas late that evening and

1316
01:01:32,650 --> 01:01:29,019
that had to be the same experience that

1317
01:01:36,690 --> 01:01:32,660
JR Logan was going on was experiencing

1318
01:01:40,109 --> 01:01:36,700
so I went to investigate rabbi lovey's

1319
01:01:43,150 --> 01:01:40,119
background and he was an extraordinarily

1320
01:01:45,849 --> 01:01:43,160
educated highly regarded figure in

1321
01:01:48,099 --> 01:01:45,859
Beaumont and he was educated in Europe

1322
01:01:50,589 --> 01:01:48,109
he was originally me grew up in France

1323
01:01:52,799 --> 01:01:50,599
went to the best universities came to

1324
01:01:56,499 --> 01:01:52,809
the United States to serve as a rabbi in

1325
01:02:00,249 --> 01:01:56,509
1870s made a very good reputation for

1326
01:02:02,349 --> 01:02:00,259
himself also he said he told a New

1327
01:02:06,309 --> 01:02:02,359
Orleans reporter that he was in town to

1328
01:02:09,370 --> 01:02:06,319
attend his niece's wedding and it turned

1329
01:02:11,109 --> 01:02:09,380
out I learned that he did indeed have a

1330
01:02:15,490 --> 01:02:11,119
New Orleans connection that he had

1331
01:02:17,410 --> 01:02:15,500
served as a rabbi in New Orleans among

1332
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:17,420
other cities in the south that he had

1333
01:02:22,059 --> 01:02:20,210
served before he came to Beaumont so

1334
01:02:25,180 --> 01:02:22,069
anyway there was no question that this

1335
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:25,190
was about his reliable a witness as you

1336
01:02:32,859 --> 01:02:29,450
could ask for I also learned that JR

1337
01:02:36,579 --> 01:02:32,869
Logan never got over his experience and

1338
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:36,589
he actually constructed a model airship

1339
01:02:43,180 --> 01:02:38,569
based upon the one that he had entered

1340
01:02:47,470 --> 01:02:43,190
and observed closely and even presented

1341
01:02:49,590 --> 01:02:47,480
it in a community parade the following

1342
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:49,600
July

1343
01:02:56,370 --> 01:02:52,930
this guy nobody involved in this looks

1344
01:03:00,860 --> 01:02:56,380
like a hoaxer or a nut and it turned out

1345
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:00,870
that this was one of several related

1346
01:03:07,230 --> 01:03:03,610
apparently related sightings and

1347
01:03:11,220 --> 01:03:07,240
landings that had occurred in western

1348
01:03:13,290 --> 01:03:11,230
Louisiana and and Texas within a few

1349
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:13,300
days of each other in April in the month

1350
01:03:19,260 --> 01:03:17,110
of April 1897 so I put this all together

1351
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:19,270
in this article which appears in the

1352
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:21,970
January issue of fourteen times along

1353
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:27,520
with my interpretation about we're gonna

1354
01:03:32,910 --> 01:03:29,530
have more and we'll talk about that

1355
01:03:36,030 --> 01:03:32,920
article entitled mr. Wilson and the

1356
01:03:37,020 --> 01:03:36,040
aeronauts of 1897 it almost sounds like

1357
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,030
a movie title

1358
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:40,240
Jerome Clarke Curtis Collins you're in

1359
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:50,220
neighbors we've made such a deal with

1360
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hellofresh and it means that everyone

1361
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listening to this show can receive $30

1362
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off your first week of deliveries when

1363
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you go to hellofresh comm and use the

1364
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offer code para cast 30 you know if

1365
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hellofresh you can choose the delivery

1366
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1367
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they've got a wide variety of chef

1368
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curated recipes they change weekly and

1369
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can you imagine me cooking Japanese

1370
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panko chicken it makes me feel like I'm

1371
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a chef it means also that you could

1372
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actually get your meal cooked in 30

1373
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minutes for busy people this is perfect

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the simple recipes includes step-by-step

1375
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instructions to leave it I can figure it

1376
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out go to hello fresh comm use the offer

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1379
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does the current world crisis in North

1380
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Korea or our domestic crisis right here

1381
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in America concern you well I know it

1382
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concerns me my friends over at legacy

1383
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food storage have solutions in the event

1384
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there's the inevitable what's the

1385
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inevitable civil unrest a run on your

1386
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local grocery store and here's my

1387
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question to you if this happens how do

1388
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:08,950
you feed your children how do you feed

1389
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your grandchildren legacy food storage

1390
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1391
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1392
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1396
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simply using GCN call eight eight eight

1397
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five four three seventy three forty five

1398
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or visit them at legacy food storage com

1399
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that's eight eight eight five four three

1400
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seventy three forty five or visiting

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them at legacy food storage com make

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include death at GCN team we should

1409
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change the healthy body brain and heart

1410
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1411
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to the healthy libido pack the brain and

1412
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require a healthy vascular system for

1414
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proper blood flow at the right moment

1415
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go to GCN team.com or call eight seven

1416
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seven eight seven eight 4203 that's

1417
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eight seven seven eight seven eight 4203

1418
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:17,560
that's eight seven seven eight seven

1419
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eight 4203

1420
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warning if you're drowning in debt you

1421
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can't afford do not let the credit card

1422
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companies trick you into thinking that

1423
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1424
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1425
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:30,880
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1426
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1427
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without paying off your entire debt or

1428
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going bankrupt

1429
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if you have $5,000 or more in credit

1430
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card debt you now have the right to let

1431
01:06:43,859 --> 01:06:41,920
us settle that debt for a fraction of

1432
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:43,869
what you owe for free information call

1433
01:06:47,820 --> 01:06:45,970
credit associates now one eight hundred

1434
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1435
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1436
01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:51,460
could save if you can't afford to pay

1437
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:53,440
off all your debt do not let the credit

1438
01:06:57,540 --> 01:06:54,970
card companies trick you into thinking

1439
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that you have to call credit associates

1440
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now for free information on how to get

1441
01:07:03,660 --> 01:07:01,510
debt-free faster than you ever thought

1442
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:03,670
possible without debt consolidation or

1443
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bankruptcy we depend on your success and

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offer a guarantee so there's no risk for

1445
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1-800-920-2262 smoth we'd like to hear

1446
01:07:56,180 --> 01:07:54,099
from you if you have a comment or

1447
01:07:59,120 --> 01:07:56,190
question about the para cast

1448
01:08:02,930 --> 01:07:59,130
the two news at the para cast calm

1449
01:08:04,849 --> 01:08:02,940
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1450
01:08:08,059 --> 01:08:04,859
don't forget to visit our famous para

1451
01:08:12,609 --> 01:08:08,069
cast community forums at forum dot the

1452
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:12,619
para cast dot-com Jerome Clark

1453
01:08:18,140 --> 01:08:15,210
Curtis Collins our guest co-host I'm

1454
01:08:21,740 --> 01:08:18,150
Jean Steinberg we continue with this

1455
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:21,750
episode and I likened the title I guess

1456
01:08:27,229 --> 01:08:23,730
this was the title of the editor of 14

1457
01:08:29,530 --> 01:08:27,239
times made for your article Jerry and

1458
01:08:34,220 --> 01:08:29,540
that is it sounded like a movie title or

1459
01:08:37,939 --> 01:08:34,230
like a like a Jules Verne story that's

1460
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:37,949
why I compared it that way yes that

1461
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:39,690
title I had another title which I

1462
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:45,449
preferred but when I saw that fuels

1463
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:47,370
burned stories about aeronauts

1464
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:49,410
that I read when I was a kid and we're

1465
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:50,400
really thrilling

1466
01:08:55,789 --> 01:08:53,250
I think we're obviously thinking the

1467
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:55,799
same way about 1897 so let's go on with

1468
01:08:59,090 --> 01:08:56,449
the story

1469
01:09:02,209 --> 01:08:59,100
well there were other stories one

1470
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:02,219
involved a sheriff Baylor at Uvalde

1471
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:05,370
Texas which I think was more than three

1472
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:07,650
hundred miles away from Beaumont by my

1473
01:09:14,780 --> 01:09:11,370
counting and he claimed that an airship

1474
01:09:17,329 --> 01:09:14,790
had landed late at night in his as I

1475
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:17,339
recall in his alley and he had gone and

1476
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:20,730
he talked with the crew the crew was led

1477
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:23,730
again by a man named Wilson who said

1478
01:09:29,829 --> 01:09:27,690
that he had known a local lawman who is

1479
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:29,839
now a customs agent along the

1480
01:09:37,550 --> 01:09:33,120
texas-mexico border and that he had

1481
01:09:42,490 --> 01:09:37,560
known this guy in in Fort Worth 20 years

1482
01:09:45,019 --> 01:09:42,500
earlier and that he should greet this

1483
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:45,029
customization next time you saw him

1484
01:09:49,610 --> 01:09:47,489
since the sheriff Baylor said he would

1485
01:09:52,430 --> 01:09:49,620
and and the guy gets in the ship and

1486
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:52,440
flies away and then the newspaper the

1487
01:09:57,229 --> 01:09:55,050
Houston paper runs the story that they

1488
01:09:59,479 --> 01:09:57,239
had found the they had talked with the

1489
01:10:02,750 --> 01:09:59,489
customs agent he said yes he said I did

1490
01:10:05,900 --> 01:10:02,760
know a man named Wilson Fort Worth in

1491
01:10:08,330 --> 01:10:05,910
the 1870s and he was working on some

1492
01:10:08,859 --> 01:10:08,340
kind of aerial device which he claimed

1493
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:08,869
with

1494
01:10:15,700 --> 01:10:12,320
which startled the nation and so he said

1495
01:10:18,580 --> 01:10:15,710
he must have succeeded in doing that

1496
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:18,590
that seemed really impressive at first

1497
01:10:27,879 --> 01:10:22,730
reading and there were other cases of

1498
01:10:29,770 --> 01:10:27,889
people who saw airships land on their

1499
01:10:33,070 --> 01:10:29,780
property or neared and they talked with

1500
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:33,080
the crews and they and either Wilson was

1501
01:10:37,629 --> 01:10:36,050
mentioned by name or from the

1502
01:10:40,810 --> 01:10:37,639
description of the crew and the

1503
01:10:43,570 --> 01:10:40,820
interaction with the principal guy V

1504
01:10:46,810 --> 01:10:43,580
head of the crews the implication is

1505
01:10:48,939 --> 01:10:46,820
that this was a guy named Wilson and so

1506
01:10:50,649 --> 01:10:48,949
you put it together and it looks really

1507
01:10:53,589 --> 01:10:50,659
interesting like you've got a chain of

1508
01:10:55,419 --> 01:10:53,599
evidence here but when you look at it

1509
01:10:58,510 --> 01:10:55,429
more closely and start digging deeper

1510
01:11:02,260 --> 01:10:58,520
and deeper as I did a few years ago you

1511
01:11:05,620 --> 01:11:02,270
find that one of the cases at least one

1512
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:05,630
of the cases is a confessed hoax and

1513
01:11:11,530 --> 01:11:09,199
that's sheriff Baylor story and sheriff

1514
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:11,540
Baylor actually confessed to a

1515
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:14,690
small-town Texas paper a couple of weeks

1516
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:17,030
later said I made up that everybody's

1517
01:11:22,300 --> 01:11:19,130
bothered me about this but never

1518
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:22,310
happened I made up as a joke so here's

1519
01:11:26,910 --> 01:11:24,650
the story that in the in the seaming

1520
01:11:30,700 --> 01:11:26,920
chain of evidence that doesn't stand up

1521
01:11:32,729 --> 01:11:30,710
but these other cases for one reason or

1522
01:11:36,339 --> 01:11:32,739
another they still they do look

1523
01:11:39,820 --> 01:11:36,349
persuasive it looks as if most of these

1524
01:11:42,430 --> 01:11:39,830
claims were sincerely related and a

1525
01:11:46,359 --> 01:11:42,440
couple of them weren't and significantly

1526
01:11:51,149 --> 01:11:46,369
perhaps the two most suspect stories are

1527
01:11:54,910 --> 01:11:51,159
ones told by law enforcement officers

1528
01:11:56,530 --> 01:11:54,920
who may have been connected with these

1529
01:11:59,200 --> 01:11:56,540
guys may have known each other and just

1530
01:12:01,390 --> 01:11:59,210
made up these stories to abused

1531
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:01,400
themselves but the other witnesses are

1532
01:12:07,930 --> 01:12:05,840
people who seem like ordinary people who

1533
01:12:11,260 --> 01:12:07,940
tell this story for no obvious reason

1534
01:12:14,979 --> 01:12:11,270
and who seemed genuinely perplexed about

1535
01:12:16,570 --> 01:12:14,989
what happened so eventually I've got to

1536
01:12:17,950 --> 01:12:16,580
put this together in a way that makes

1537
01:12:18,570 --> 01:12:17,960
sense and that's what the article is

1538
01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:18,580
about

1539
01:12:24,879 --> 01:12:22,369
tapestry

1540
01:12:27,759 --> 01:12:24,889
but have genuine experience the Nama

1541
01:12:30,369 --> 01:12:27,769
lace I wanted to ask you a question

1542
01:12:33,339 --> 01:12:30,379
about about the type of obviously these

1543
01:12:36,909 --> 01:12:33,349
these will will calm close encounters

1544
01:12:39,549 --> 01:12:36,919
the that's that's self-explanatory but

1545
01:12:42,119 --> 01:12:39,559
there was a range of other sightings and

1546
01:12:44,859 --> 01:12:42,129
I was just wondering if some of these

1547
01:12:46,659 --> 01:12:44,869
okay there were probably some Venus

1548
01:12:48,929 --> 01:12:46,669
sightings and I know that there was at

1549
01:12:51,819 --> 01:12:48,939
least one case where a newspaper

1550
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:51,829
investigating they launched what we

1551
01:12:56,709 --> 01:12:54,289
would now call a sky liner and a fire

1552
01:12:59,529 --> 01:12:56,719
balloon to see if that generated the

1553
01:13:02,799 --> 01:12:59,539
same kind of kind of things where were

1554
01:13:04,540 --> 01:13:02,809
some of these daylight signings or night

1555
01:13:08,919 --> 01:13:04,550
or can you kind of characterize a

1556
01:13:11,529 --> 01:13:08,929
spectrum of experiences the the legend

1557
01:13:16,330 --> 01:13:11,539
Connor Smith Wilson were all at night

1558
01:13:19,299 --> 01:13:16,340
never close range in in most of the

1559
01:13:22,569 --> 01:13:19,309
cases the witnesses claimed to have been

1560
01:13:26,799 --> 01:13:22,579
taken aboard the airship and given a

1561
01:13:29,799 --> 01:13:26,809
tour and so this is different from

1562
01:13:33,850 --> 01:13:29,809
seeing a you know a lantern floating in

1563
01:13:36,399 --> 01:13:33,860
the sky or watching these were these

1564
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:36,409
either happened or they didn't or as I

1565
01:13:42,189 --> 01:13:40,010
suspect they neither happened or didn't

1566
01:13:45,219 --> 01:13:42,199
happen they were occurred in some kind

1567
01:13:48,429 --> 01:13:45,229
of lumen am I looking trying to save

1568
01:13:52,330 --> 01:13:48,439
some kind of intermediate stage that

1569
01:13:56,919 --> 01:13:52,340
these were vivid kinds of visionary

1570
01:14:00,819 --> 01:13:56,929
experiences that were created out of the

1571
01:14:04,529 --> 01:14:00,829
the idea of airships including hoaxes

1572
01:14:08,020 --> 01:14:04,539
about airships that the hoaxes and the

1573
01:14:10,540 --> 01:14:08,030
authentic encounters authentic used in a

1574
01:14:14,409 --> 01:14:10,550
very broad sense really came out of the

1575
01:14:18,569 --> 01:14:14,419
same place that that some of the stories

1576
01:14:23,549 --> 01:14:18,579
were imaginary and were purely imaginary

1577
01:14:24,719 --> 01:14:23,559
but others which use much of the same

1578
01:14:27,250 --> 01:14:24,729
imagery

1579
01:14:33,129 --> 01:14:27,260
we're actually experience they were

1580
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:33,139
experiences real that they're that these

1581
01:14:39,490 --> 01:14:36,170
that these phenomena like I believe

1582
01:14:44,140 --> 01:14:39,500
most high strangeness phenomena come out

1583
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:44,150
of some state that it's not a binary

1584
01:14:49,770 --> 01:14:46,610
state it's not a state between real and

1585
01:14:53,940 --> 01:14:49,780
unreal it partakes of both of them

1586
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:53,950
sometimes want more one than the other

1587
01:15:02,530 --> 01:14:59,600
but it explains why we can't prove that

1588
01:15:06,850 --> 01:15:02,540
extraordinary phenomena occur other than

1589
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:06,860
as experiences in most cases that people

1590
01:15:13,810 --> 01:15:10,400
have these vivid vivid experiences which

1591
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:13,820
naturally they understand to be taking

1592
01:15:19,870 --> 01:15:17,330
place and consensus reality but in fact

1593
01:15:23,860 --> 01:15:19,880
they're they're taken in some other

1594
01:15:27,340 --> 01:15:23,870
state of a perception it's like where

1595
01:15:29,010 --> 01:15:27,350
the ordinary boundaries break down and

1596
01:15:31,540 --> 01:15:29,020
at the end they become what I call

1597
01:15:34,930 --> 01:15:31,550
experience anomalies as opposed to an

1598
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:34,940
event anomaly an event anomaly is

1599
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:37,370
something that you can potentially prove

1600
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:40,010
happened in the world the experience

1601
01:15:45,430 --> 01:15:42,770
anomaly is farm stranger and more

1602
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:45,440
fantastic and you could never prove that

1603
01:15:49,390 --> 01:15:47,690
has happened in the world you can prove

1604
01:15:51,820 --> 01:15:49,400
that people experienced it as they

1605
01:15:54,070 --> 01:15:51,830
described it but just the fact that they

1606
01:15:56,610 --> 01:15:54,080
experienced it doesn't tell you what it

1607
01:15:59,620 --> 01:15:56,620
was if sort of the difference between

1608
01:16:01,690 --> 01:15:59,630
the unexplained the unexplained our

1609
01:16:04,690 --> 01:16:01,700
event anomalies which are potentially

1610
01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:04,700
explainable and experienced anomalies

1611
01:16:10,260 --> 01:16:07,490
are inexplicable they're just outside

1612
01:16:12,730 --> 01:16:10,270
all boundaries that we understand and

1613
01:16:17,110 --> 01:16:12,740
you know maneuver our way through the

1614
01:16:21,250 --> 01:16:17,120
world inside long and shorter than the

1615
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image of the dirigible type craft that

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reflects the culture of the time Joseph

1617
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as a flying saucer dies now we got more

1618
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to come with Jerome Clark and Curtis

1619
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Collins and listen to questions you're

1620
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1723
01:21:04,609 --> 01:21:01,829
listening to the podcast so was Jerry

1724
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:04,619
Clark as I said we're talking here about

1725
01:21:11,419 --> 01:21:07,440
the experience as opposed to the event

1726
01:21:15,350 --> 01:21:11,429
anomaly and therefore the 1897 airship

1727
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:15,360
is because that kind of craft was part

1728
01:21:20,629 --> 01:21:18,210
of the culture then as a flying saucer

1729
01:21:27,649 --> 01:21:20,639
or a spaceship type device would be

1730
01:21:31,939 --> 01:21:27,659
today yes yeah you could even see the

1731
01:21:35,149 --> 01:21:31,949
airship phenomenon is really not it's

1732
01:21:39,919 --> 01:21:35,159
all related to the UFO phenomenon is

1733
01:21:43,609 --> 01:21:39,929
defined by the hard evidence cases that

1734
01:21:45,739 --> 01:21:43,619
you can just see it as some kind of yeah

1735
01:21:49,489 --> 01:21:45,749
extraordinary serious events for all the

1736
01:21:52,129 --> 01:21:49,499
ordinary boundaries break down and one

1737
01:21:53,629 --> 01:21:52,139
thing that you follow just did and it's

1738
01:21:56,629 --> 01:21:53,639
understandable it's not a major

1739
01:21:58,219 --> 01:21:56,639
intellectual crime but when they got

1740
01:21:59,270 --> 01:21:58,229
hold of this and they knew about the

1741
01:22:02,060 --> 01:21:59,280
1897

1742
01:22:04,790 --> 01:22:02,070
for what about they appeared in sports

1743
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:04,800
book new lands which was published in

1744
01:22:09,770 --> 01:22:07,920
1923 but they knew about the early

1745
01:22:11,420 --> 01:22:09,780
apologists new by their ships and so

1746
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:11,430
there were these strange objects in the

1747
01:22:18,050 --> 01:22:14,490
sky so they naturally assumed this was

1748
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:18,060
these were early UFOs and Donald Kehoe

1749
01:22:22,580 --> 01:22:19,770
wrote about them in the flying saucers

1750
01:22:25,580 --> 01:22:22,590
are real from 1950 and he basically

1751
01:22:28,340 --> 01:22:25,590
rewrote the reports so they sound like

1752
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:28,350
modern UFOs but they weren't modern UFOs

1753
01:22:34,130 --> 01:22:31,290
they were very clearly described as

1754
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:34,140
terrible and again I want to emphasize

1755
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:36,690
that this is was an international

1756
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:40,080
phenomenon there were comparable waves

1757
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:41,850
that happened in various times and

1758
01:22:48,410 --> 01:22:45,690
England South Africa Australia yeah it's

1759
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:48,420
just about anywhere everybody in the

1760
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:52,050
late 19th century in the early 20th

1761
01:22:58,100 --> 01:22:53,810
century was experiencing something like

1762
01:23:02,030 --> 01:22:58,110
airships but they nobody was describing

1763
01:23:04,700 --> 01:23:02,040
them as looking like saucers or cigar

1764
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:04,710
shaped objects or familiar forms from

1765
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:07,770
the UFO this was like something really

1766
01:23:13,610 --> 01:23:10,290
distinct now you can go back into

1767
01:23:17,390 --> 01:23:13,620
history and you can find modern sounding

1768
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:17,400
UFO reports from the 19th century the

1769
01:23:23,420 --> 01:23:21,210
18th century the 17th century there are

1770
01:23:26,300 --> 01:23:23,430
such reports which suggest that there

1771
01:23:29,540 --> 01:23:26,310
may be a UFO phenomenon possibly

1772
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:29,550
indicative of alien visitation which is

1773
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:33,770
separate from these experienced anomaly

1774
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:40,530
phenomena but the airships of America

1775
01:23:45,980 --> 01:23:43,890
and Canada and everywhere else

1776
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:45,990
we're not UFOs in the modern sense at

1777
01:23:51,230 --> 01:23:48,960
all there was a certain amount of

1778
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:51,240
speculation that these were margin

1779
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:53,610
visitors but that was because in the

1780
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:55,770
latter 19th century there was a great

1781
01:24:01,280 --> 01:23:58,320
deal of speculation even in the sober

1782
01:24:03,230 --> 01:24:01,290
scientific press about the existence of

1783
01:24:06,350 --> 01:24:03,240
margins and there were attempts to

1784
01:24:08,330 --> 01:24:06,360
contact Martians you know through you

1785
01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:08,340
know shining bright lights and doing

1786
01:24:12,370 --> 01:24:10,320
things like that and there was

1787
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:12,380
speculation that Martians might have

1788
01:24:17,170 --> 01:24:14,210
visited the earth quite apart from

1789
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:17,180
airship sightings but that strain of

1790
01:24:22,420 --> 01:24:20,210
speculation at some point got sucked

1791
01:24:23,890 --> 01:24:22,430
into the airship phenomenon but it was

1792
01:24:27,100 --> 01:24:23,900
only a minor part of it

1793
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:27,110
the major belief the major experience

1794
01:24:32,940 --> 01:24:29,120
the experience or part of the airship

1795
01:24:36,220 --> 01:24:32,950
phenomenon was about secret adventures

1796
01:24:38,650 --> 01:24:36,230
heard that Thomas Edison was accused of

1797
01:24:50,770 --> 01:24:38,660
building an airship and he denied it

1798
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:50,780
do you remember anything about that he

1799
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:52,610
was right about the first part wrong

1800
01:24:56,980 --> 01:24:54,890
about the second part there was all

1801
01:24:59,530 --> 01:24:56,990
kinds of speculation about who the

1802
01:25:02,890 --> 01:24:59,540
inventor might be and there were even

1803
01:25:05,590 --> 01:25:02,900
people who claimed that they were the

1804
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:05,600
inventor they knew the center but they

1805
01:25:11,620 --> 01:25:07,760
were I think just making that up

1806
01:25:13,300 --> 01:25:11,630
soare best known Martian story was the

1807
01:25:16,450 --> 01:25:13,310
Aurora crash and there's a lot of

1808
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:16,460
legends about that well not everyone has

1809
01:25:20,020 --> 01:25:17,330
put it to rest

1810
01:25:26,490 --> 01:25:20,030
do you think there's anything about that

1811
01:25:29,620 --> 01:25:26,500
that it's worthy of studying newspaper

1812
01:25:32,950 --> 01:25:29,630
and another one one that I debunked

1813
01:25:36,180 --> 01:25:32,960
myself back in the mid-1970s v Alex

1814
01:25:39,100 --> 01:25:36,190
Hamilton you know Cass napping by aliens

1815
01:25:42,070 --> 01:25:39,110
where they supposedly last sued a calf

1816
01:25:44,260 --> 01:25:42,080
and later they found the butchered

1817
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:44,270
remains in the field with no footprints

1818
01:25:48,010 --> 01:25:46,370
around it you know that story looked

1819
01:25:49,810 --> 01:25:48,020
really impressive but it was just a

1820
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:49,820
practical joke by some of the prominent

1821
01:25:56,620 --> 01:25:53,210
citizens of a small town in Kansas in

1822
01:25:58,450 --> 01:25:56,630
April 1897 the Aurora story is

1823
01:26:01,450 --> 01:25:58,460
interesting because it involves a marsh

1824
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:01,460
all the crashed spaceship these are

1825
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:03,170
things that we've heard about a lot

1826
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:06,410
since subsequently it was just a joke I

1827
01:26:11,500 --> 01:26:08,570
remember reading about one other hoax

1828
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:11,510
and my memory of it - damn but you I'm

1829
01:26:15,570 --> 01:26:13,130
sure you probably remembered it was

1830
01:26:17,230 --> 01:26:15,580
where debris was found that although

1831
01:26:19,690 --> 01:26:17,240
supposedly a crashed

1832
01:26:21,820 --> 01:26:19,700
airship I'm not giving you much to go on

1833
01:26:24,730 --> 01:26:21,830
but yes I remember it at Li the

1834
01:26:28,420 --> 01:26:24,740
appreciated in Nebraska

1835
01:26:30,730 --> 01:26:28,430
okay was just a made-up story the one

1836
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:30,740
that I was think you know and maybe the

1837
01:26:35,110 --> 01:26:32,960
same thing that it pushed debris down a

1838
01:26:40,530 --> 01:26:35,120
hill and claimed it was pieces of the

1839
01:26:45,850 --> 01:26:42,880
yeah there were hoaxes I mean people

1840
01:26:48,430 --> 01:26:45,860
sometimes would build a structure pass

1841
01:26:50,230 --> 01:26:48,440
it off as a as an airship of course it

1842
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:50,240
wouldn't stand up on the examination

1843
01:26:55,540 --> 01:26:52,850
they don't and with these hoaxes were

1844
01:26:58,450 --> 01:26:55,550
typically put forward less as a hoax

1845
01:27:01,000 --> 01:26:58,460
into the prank or until just who is kind

1846
01:27:03,820 --> 01:27:01,010
of like a sense of humor of the frontier

1847
01:27:06,490 --> 01:27:03,830
when the more outrageous an unbelievable

1848
01:27:07,690 --> 01:27:06,500
story was the better it was because it

1849
01:27:10,990 --> 01:27:07,700
was just entertainment

1850
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:11,000
nobody was really serious about hosting

1851
01:27:16,870 --> 01:27:13,970
you know speaking of Aurora I think of

1852
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:16,880
an interesting character who I haven't

1853
01:27:21,850 --> 01:27:17,810
heard about for years

1854
01:27:26,590 --> 01:27:21,860
Hayden Hughes I was really pushing the

1855
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:26,600
Aurora Texas affair he was I don't think

1856
01:27:31,750 --> 01:27:28,130
that that's charitable interpretation

1857
01:27:36,300 --> 01:27:31,760
that Hayden was really familiar with the

1858
01:27:40,690 --> 01:27:36,310
press treatment of airships in it was

1859
01:27:43,780 --> 01:27:40,700
really just part of a pattern of I'm

1860
01:27:46,060 --> 01:27:43,790
landing made-up stories that I don't

1861
01:27:48,340 --> 01:27:46,070
really don't believe anybody was meant

1862
01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:48,350
to take a seriously I think when they

1863
01:27:53,850 --> 01:27:50,510
were published in newspapers they were

1864
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:53,860
meant and taken his light entertainment

1865
01:27:58,770 --> 01:27:57,170
that story about a margin crashing an

1866
01:28:03,220 --> 01:27:58,780
airship

1867
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:03,230
obviously even preposterous that I think

1868
01:28:10,300 --> 01:28:04,930
that the average reader just laughed

1869
01:28:13,420 --> 01:28:10,310
knew that it was you know a joke but I

1870
01:28:15,610 --> 01:28:13,430
think that hidden hues and other people

1871
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:15,620
who went to Aurora subsequently and

1872
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:17,210
there's nothing wrong with going to

1873
01:28:22,690 --> 01:28:20,090
Aurora on the very slight chance that

1874
01:28:24,430 --> 01:28:22,700
there was something to the story but I

1875
01:28:28,480 --> 01:28:24,440
think you just have to understand the

1876
01:28:30,490 --> 01:28:28,490
context which that story told that is

1877
01:28:32,490 --> 01:28:30,500
the problem I think which is you're

1878
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:32,500
looking at something that was written

1879
01:28:38,260 --> 01:28:36,530
originally in the late 1890s

1880
01:28:40,870 --> 01:28:38,270
and things are very different than just

1881
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:40,880
for example as the newspapers it wasn't

1882
01:28:44,100 --> 01:28:42,530
like the New York Times of The

1883
01:28:46,930 --> 01:28:44,110
Washington Post and you take these

1884
01:28:48,370 --> 01:28:46,940
publications seriously because they're

1885
01:28:51,460 --> 01:28:48,380
meant to be taken seriously whether you

1886
01:28:53,770 --> 01:28:51,470
believe it's a mainstream media liberal

1887
01:28:56,710 --> 01:28:53,780
media or whatever you have serious

1888
01:29:00,370 --> 01:28:56,720
people doing serious work it's not just

1889
01:29:03,430 --> 01:29:00,380
writing a story to have fun to sell

1890
01:29:05,590 --> 01:29:03,440
papers to make some money to do wacky

1891
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:05,600
things and even though we have

1892
01:29:10,210 --> 01:29:08,510
publications that do it now you have to

1893
01:29:12,610 --> 01:29:10,220
look at this in the context but if you

1894
01:29:15,370 --> 01:29:12,620
take the story separate from the

1895
01:29:17,530 --> 01:29:15,380
environment and which was created I

1896
01:29:20,290 --> 01:29:17,540
could see where it could be taken more

1897
01:29:24,010 --> 01:29:20,300
seriously that should be yeah you have

1898
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:24,020
to really have as I did as other people

1899
01:29:29,230 --> 01:29:26,810
did just read enough of the press

1900
01:29:32,710 --> 01:29:29,240
coverage from the american papers of

1901
01:29:34,930 --> 01:29:32,720
1897 to really get a sense of what was

1902
01:29:36,730 --> 01:29:34,940
going on just at the basic reporting

1903
01:29:38,980 --> 01:29:36,740
level so this isn't true of all

1904
01:29:41,890 --> 01:29:38,990
newspapers all newspapers weren't doing

1905
01:29:44,740 --> 01:29:41,900
this but enough of them were that we got

1906
01:29:47,020 --> 01:29:44,750
an enormous amount of noise and i and

1907
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:47,030
some people including my friend 80

1908
01:29:51,010 --> 01:29:48,650
Bullards still argue that there was

1909
01:29:53,170 --> 01:29:51,020
nothing but noise i do not believe that

1910
01:29:56,050 --> 01:29:53,180
because this was an international

1911
01:29:58,210 --> 01:29:56,060
phenomenon and when you read newspapers

1912
01:30:00,730 --> 01:29:58,220
in England or Australia reporting or New

1913
01:30:03,100 --> 01:30:00,740
Zealand reporting on their airships you

1914
01:30:04,930 --> 01:30:03,110
don't have all this noise this is kind

1915
01:30:07,270 --> 01:30:04,940
of sober reporting they're not jokes

1916
01:30:09,460 --> 01:30:07,280
they're treated like real news stories

1917
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:09,470
it turns out that what they were seeing

1918
01:30:16,540 --> 01:30:13,370
in New Zealand in 1919 pen Australia

1919
01:30:19,030 --> 01:30:16,550
England their descriptions are very much

1920
01:30:25,480 --> 01:30:19,040
like what you read in the more sober

1921
01:30:27,790 --> 01:30:25,490
less jokey or sensation we've got more

1922
01:30:30,130 --> 01:30:27,800
to come with Jerome Clarke I'm Jean

1923
01:30:37,750 --> 01:30:30,140
Steinberg he's Curtis Collins you're in

1924
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:42,830
thank you for listening to GCN

1925
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visit GP and live.com today do you need

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1937
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1938
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1939
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there's the coming of the protectors a

1940
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former military intelligence man is

1941
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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1942
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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1943
01:31:33,620 --> 01:31:31,920
because evil forces on our distant

1944
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

1945
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this is gripping science fiction of the

1946
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classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

1947
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and the coming of the protectors find

1948
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out more at Rocko its calm that's rock

1949
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oh it's our Ock oids calm anytime

1950
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anyplace anywhere radio remains the most

1951
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intimate of all forms of media at home

1952
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at work in the car on smartphones over

1953
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90% of consumers still listen to radio

1954
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every week that makes choosing radio as

1955
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a place to advertise your business one

1956
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of the best decisions you can make email

1957
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1958
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with an experienced GCN representative

1959
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1960
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affordable effective this is Dan pillow

1961
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do you have the IRS money you can't pay

1962
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our tax debts crippling you I've

1963
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defended people from the IRS for over 30

1964
01:32:27,709 --> 01:32:25,650
years I've helped thousands and I can

1965
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help you too I wrote the book on IRS

1966
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settlement and I'm telling you there's

1967
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no such thing as a hopeless case call

1968
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834 no tax to finally get free of IRS

1969
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1970
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1971
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solve your problem call 834 no tax

1972
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that's 803 for no tax or my website Dan

1973
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pillow comm many medicines used to treat

1974
01:32:56,300 --> 01:32:54,060
colds and flu contain acetaminophen a

1975
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pain reliever and fever reducer found in

1976
01:32:57,560 --> 01:32:56,670
hundred

1977
01:33:00,200 --> 01:32:57,570
of over-the-counter and prescription

1978
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:00,210
medicines but taking too much or more

1979
01:33:03,500 --> 01:33:01,530
than one medication containing

1980
01:33:05,570 --> 01:33:03,510
acetaminophen per day can damage your

1981
01:33:07,250 --> 01:33:05,580
liver so always read the label and don't

1982
01:33:09,380 --> 01:33:07,260
take acetaminophen if you drink three or

1983
01:33:12,950 --> 01:33:09,390
more alcoholic drinks every day to learn

1984
01:33:14,870 --> 01:33:12,960
more visit fda.gov slash OTC pain info a

1985
01:33:16,250 --> 01:33:14,880
message from the US Department of Health

1986
01:33:18,660 --> 01:33:16,260
and Human Services Food and Drug

1987
01:33:23,380 --> 01:33:21,520
hi this is Sophie Winnick longtime

1988
01:33:25,780 --> 01:33:23,390
distributor and user of youngevity

1989
01:33:27,820 --> 01:33:25,790
products in the last few years my family

1990
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:27,830
went through a crisis everything else in

1991
01:33:31,330 --> 01:33:29,570
my life including my business had to be

1992
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:31,340
put on the back burner thankfully life

1993
01:33:34,690 --> 01:33:33,050
is getting back to normal now but the

1994
01:33:36,370 --> 01:33:34,700
one thing I never had to worry about was

1995
01:33:38,260 --> 01:33:36,380
my business and my monthly Commission

1996
01:33:40,390 --> 01:33:38,270
I've been a distributor for youngevity

1997
01:33:42,430 --> 01:33:40,400
for over 17 years since before it was

1998
01:33:44,410 --> 01:33:42,440
youngevity and I've got to say the most

1999
01:33:46,630 --> 01:33:44,420
amazing thing about this company is the

2000
01:33:48,700 --> 01:33:46,640
people while my family was in crisis

2001
01:33:50,770 --> 01:33:48,710
other distributors stepped in and helped

2002
01:33:52,630 --> 01:33:50,780
my customers simply because that's what

2003
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:52,640
youngevity people do even for people

2004
01:33:56,440 --> 01:33:54,890
they don't know for me it has never been

2005
01:33:58,720 --> 01:33:56,450
about getting rich it was about a

2006
01:34:00,820 --> 01:33:58,730
product I could stand behind a company I

2007
01:34:03,190 --> 01:34:00,830
could count on and a monthly commission

2008
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:03,200
check that is never not once been late

2009
01:34:08,620 --> 01:34:06,770
in 17 years youngevity is truly a

2010
01:34:11,020 --> 01:34:08,630
business for everyone even people who

2011
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:11,030
have too much to do I'm Sophie Winnick

2012
01:34:16,390 --> 01:34:13,730
I'm just like you I have a real life

2013
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:16,400
real ups and downs but I know I will

2014
01:34:21,670 --> 01:34:19,610
always have youngevity hi this is Ted

2015
01:34:23,770 --> 01:34:21,680
Anderson I'm here to tell you about GC

2016
01:34:26,350 --> 01:34:23,780
and telecare dot-com a team of

2017
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:26,360
board-certified doctors assisting you 24

2018
01:34:32,230 --> 01:34:29,690
hours a day seven days a week 365 days a

2019
01:34:34,140 --> 01:34:32,240
year within 15 minutes of registration

2020
01:34:36,190 --> 01:34:34,150
care your family can afford

2021
01:34:38,860 --> 01:34:36,200
revolutionising the health care industry

2022
01:34:41,530 --> 01:34:38,870
virtual consulting providing diagnosis

2023
01:34:43,990 --> 01:34:41,540
of non-emergency medical issues by phone

2024
01:34:47,350 --> 01:34:44,000
or secure video on computer or smart

2025
01:34:50,130 --> 01:34:47,360
mobile devices GC and telecom virtual

2026
01:34:55,540 --> 01:34:50,140
care anywhere

2027
01:34:57,760 --> 01:34:55,550
[Music]

2028
01:34:59,740 --> 01:34:57,770
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

2029
01:35:01,660 --> 01:34:59,750
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

2030
01:35:03,839 --> 01:35:01,670
disclosure and you are listening to the

2031
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:03,849
para cast the gold standard of

2032
01:35:16,570 --> 01:35:13,110
[Music]

2033
01:35:19,390 --> 01:35:16,580
after the power cast can sometimes be

2034
01:35:21,610 --> 01:35:19,400
called more of the power cast or an

2035
01:35:23,979 --> 01:35:21,620
interruption of the power cast we never

2036
01:35:25,300 --> 01:35:23,989
know what's gonna happen X which is the

2037
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:25,310
great thing about that show it's a

2038
01:35:30,160 --> 01:35:27,650
podcast available only if you subscribe

2039
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:30,170
to the power cast plus we also give you

2040
01:35:34,629 --> 01:35:31,730
a version of this show without the

2041
01:35:38,169 --> 01:35:34,639
network ads and not just to satisfy the

2042
01:35:41,050 --> 01:35:38,179
people who complain at YouTube it's

2043
01:35:43,149 --> 01:35:41,060
available if you check out plus dr.

2044
01:35:46,090 --> 01:35:43,159
power cast calm that's plus doc the

2045
01:35:48,700 --> 01:35:46,100
power cast calm crisis started just a

2046
01:35:51,850 --> 01:35:48,710
dollar forty nine a week and by either

2047
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:51,860
way we are looking into other ways to

2048
01:35:56,709 --> 01:35:53,360
pay for it right now you can use a major

2049
01:35:58,000 --> 01:35:56,719
credit card through PayPal or PayPal but

2050
01:36:01,120 --> 01:35:58,010
we're looking into other ways for you to

2051
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:01,130
pay for your subscription and we have to

2052
01:36:06,129 --> 01:36:03,290
have them surely we have a bunch of

2053
01:36:08,860 --> 01:36:06,139
questions from listeners that Kurt

2054
01:36:11,620 --> 01:36:08,870
Collins is preparing for us and one

2055
01:36:14,290 --> 01:36:11,630
thing to bear in mind here Jerry hasn't

2056
01:36:16,570 --> 01:36:14,300
followed all the UFO gossip in recent

2057
01:36:17,979 --> 01:36:16,580
years although he's got some news that

2058
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:17,989
will interest you about the UFO

2059
01:36:23,500 --> 01:36:21,170
encyclopedia in the meantime Kurt's got

2060
01:36:25,990 --> 01:36:23,510
him all ready let's have a few questions

2061
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:26,000
well with that in mind we'll ask a

2062
01:36:31,030 --> 01:36:28,130
question first about current events

2063
01:36:34,149 --> 01:36:31,040
usual suspect wants to know what is your

2064
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:34,159
opinion on to the Stars Academy venture

2065
01:36:45,149 --> 01:36:40,730
well after I published the second volume

2066
01:36:46,510 --> 01:36:45,159
of the f1 cyclopædia which came out in

2067
01:36:48,399 --> 01:36:46,520
1998

2068
01:36:50,290 --> 01:36:48,409
if you familiar with that work you'll

2069
01:36:53,290 --> 01:36:50,300
know that it was probably have an

2070
01:36:56,379 --> 01:36:53,300
enormous amount of research and I got so

2071
01:36:58,540 --> 01:36:56,389
burned out that it was just hard for me

2072
01:37:01,209 --> 01:36:58,550
to think anything about UFOs for a long

2073
01:37:04,540 --> 01:37:01,219
time and I really turned my interests

2074
01:37:07,209 --> 01:37:04,550
toward creating but I jokingly referred

2075
01:37:09,459 --> 01:37:07,219
to as a unified field theory of

2076
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:09,469
anomalistic so I was looking at other

2077
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:12,170
stuff other than UFO data like you know

2078
01:37:16,689 --> 01:37:14,000
people's experiences of fairies and

2079
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:16,699
monsters knock into fantastic stuff and

2080
01:37:21,030 --> 01:37:19,010
trying to source that out with what the

2081
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:21,040
meaning of all that was so I really Nick

2082
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:24,370
back to the apology until recently when

2083
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:27,610
my attention was ripped back into it but

2084
01:37:31,590 --> 01:37:30,010
so if you talk to me in six months after

2085
01:37:34,650 --> 01:37:31,600
I finished the book that I've just

2086
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:34,660
started I'll be a lot more important

2087
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:37,600
because I will be educating myself and

2088
01:37:45,330 --> 01:37:40,570
catching up on a lot of UFO stuff so as

2089
01:37:48,030 --> 01:37:45,340
far as the to the stars story goes all I

2090
01:37:50,490 --> 01:37:48,040
know right now is what I read in the

2091
01:37:52,650 --> 01:37:50,500
papers so I don't really have a strong

2092
01:37:55,950 --> 01:37:52,660
opinion I will be delving deeply into

2093
01:37:58,290 --> 01:37:55,960
that so ask me again in 6-8 months and I

2094
01:37:59,940 --> 01:37:58,300
might actually have something worth

2095
01:38:01,800 --> 01:37:59,950
listening to to say about it

2096
01:38:04,710 --> 01:38:01,810
now I noticed one thing here we were

2097
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:04,720
talking about this for a while the fact

2098
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:06,850
that is after the initial flurry of

2099
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:09,010
donations that brought it over two

2100
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:11,920
million dollars donations have stalled

2101
01:38:17,100 --> 01:38:14,170
big time we're not hearing too much

2102
01:38:19,470 --> 01:38:17,110
about it the number of investors in the

2103
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:19,480
project has not increased a lot it

2104
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:23,410
requires a minimum investment of $200

2105
01:38:28,910 --> 01:38:26,410
and that gets you 40 shares at $5 each

2106
01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:28,920
the total amount raised as of

2107
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:31,690
mid-february is two million four hundred

2108
01:38:38,220 --> 01:38:34,690
twenty thousand 643 and sounds like a

2109
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:38,230
lot of money for us there's probably not

2110
01:38:41,190 --> 01:38:39,610
a lot of money with all the projects

2111
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:41,200
they want to take on but it's not

2112
01:38:45,420 --> 01:38:42,850
increased more than a couple of hundred

2113
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:45,430
thousand in the last couple of months or

2114
01:38:51,090 --> 01:38:48,130
so so I just wonder if either people are

2115
01:38:53,190 --> 01:38:51,100
wise to it people are not impressed by

2116
01:38:56,190 --> 01:38:53,200
it or they're not keeping the site

2117
01:39:05,040 --> 01:38:56,200
updated you know popular attention is

2118
01:39:08,370 --> 01:39:05,050
fleeting and I don't know I just don't

2119
01:39:11,340 --> 01:39:08,380
know when I dig into this maybe I'll

2120
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:11,350
know more about how this works but it

2121
01:39:15,900 --> 01:39:13,810
seems to me not surprising but

2122
01:39:24,780 --> 01:39:15,910
everything else that goes on there once

2123
01:39:27,090 --> 01:39:24,790
the initial intention also there are no

2124
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:27,100
new announcements we heard about these

2125
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:30,210
gun camera things and a few other

2126
01:39:34,649 --> 01:39:32,770
reports but there's been nothing new

2127
01:39:37,140 --> 01:39:34,659
it's just repeating the same

2128
01:39:40,590 --> 01:39:37,150
in fact the last time I saw Leslie Kane

2129
01:39:43,530 --> 01:39:40,600
on TV this was on the tucker carlson

2130
01:39:45,540 --> 01:39:43,540
show on fox news and he was surprisingly

2131
01:39:48,410 --> 01:39:45,550
serious considering his usual approach

2132
01:39:51,300 --> 01:39:48,420
to different things like this and she

2133
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:51,310
spent a lot of the time not talking

2134
01:39:56,100 --> 01:39:53,290
about UFO events or anything at the

2135
01:39:59,490 --> 01:39:56,110
pentagon UFO study revealed but about

2136
01:40:01,860 --> 01:39:59,500
the o'hare case in Chicago at O'Hare

2137
01:40:05,180 --> 01:40:01,870
Airport just to let you know it was

2138
01:40:08,189 --> 01:40:05,190
resurrecting a case over a decade old

2139
01:40:10,110 --> 01:40:08,199
but nothing from that study and nothing

2140
01:40:12,689 --> 01:40:10,120
that hasn't been covered quite a few

2141
01:40:14,910 --> 01:40:12,699
times which is part of what we normally

2142
01:40:17,610 --> 01:40:14,920
see in the UFO field you do have

2143
01:40:19,740 --> 01:40:17,620
sightings MUFON catalog sightings

2144
01:40:21,870 --> 01:40:19,750
christe's Rakowski catalogs lots of

2145
01:40:24,660 --> 01:40:21,880
sightings year after year but there's

2146
01:40:27,629 --> 01:40:24,670
nothing new about them yeah reminds me

2147
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:27,639
of a line from a John Prine song all the

2148
01:40:33,209 --> 01:40:31,090
news just repeats itself the UFOs lost

2149
01:40:35,850 --> 01:40:33,219
their novelty a long time ago and they

2150
01:40:38,820 --> 01:40:35,860
really have given us nothing more UFOs

2151
01:40:42,660 --> 01:40:38,830
are not giving us anything new to chew

2152
01:40:45,780 --> 01:40:42,670
on that's for sure and really hard to

2153
01:40:49,500 --> 01:40:45,790
sustain interest in sightings because

2154
01:40:52,700 --> 01:40:49,510
you say nothing novel is happening I

2155
01:40:56,490 --> 01:40:52,710
mean what's going on is very strange

2156
01:41:02,430 --> 01:40:56,500
extraordinary unexplained but it's

2157
01:41:03,870 --> 01:41:02,440
familiar wait and again the public is

2158
01:41:06,450 --> 01:41:03,880
fickle about such things

2159
01:41:08,700 --> 01:41:06,460
and maybe that's the reason why contact

2160
01:41:10,709 --> 01:41:08,710
DS always had to have wilder and wilder

2161
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:10,719
claims to keep the public's attention up

2162
01:41:15,180 --> 01:41:13,449
they had to come up with a new story and

2163
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:15,190
I sometimes wonder here if some of those

2164
01:41:19,140 --> 01:41:16,690
contact to use and I've mentioned this

2165
01:41:21,810 --> 01:41:19,150
before had something happened that was

2166
01:41:24,090 --> 01:41:21,820
strange some kind of experience and they

2167
01:41:26,850 --> 01:41:24,100
got the public attention they got the 15

2168
01:41:29,580 --> 01:41:26,860
minutes of fame and then their followers

2169
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:29,590
such as they were wanted something new

2170
01:41:37,830 --> 01:41:34,530
and not having something to occur and

2171
01:41:41,459 --> 01:41:37,840
wanting the attention and the 15 minutes

2172
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:41,469
of fame now expand the 30 minutes they

2173
01:41:46,350 --> 01:41:44,050
invented something that's exactly my

2174
01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:46,360
interpretation that's the way that

2175
01:41:49,990 --> 01:41:47,330
worked

2176
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:50,000
right it's kind of like you know like

2177
01:41:56,770 --> 01:41:51,050
mediums

2178
01:41:59,200 --> 01:41:56,780
you know have some extraordinary

2179
01:42:02,680 --> 01:41:59,210
connection with something but they

2180
01:42:05,290 --> 01:42:02,690
couldn't produce it on demand and so

2181
01:42:07,930 --> 01:42:05,300
they began you know making stuff up

2182
01:42:11,710 --> 01:42:07,940
learning you know trickery to keep the

2183
01:42:13,990 --> 01:42:11,720
audience I I think you know contact

2184
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:14,000
these are just the latest in iteration

2185
01:42:21,730 --> 01:42:18,530
of that kind of you know contact with

2186
01:42:25,060 --> 01:42:21,740
some other world however define that it

2187
01:42:26,860 --> 01:42:25,070
wasn't there on demand and you may have

2188
01:42:29,350 --> 01:42:26,870
it once and it doesn't come back again

2189
01:42:32,470 --> 01:42:29,360
and then you have to make it up so that

2190
01:42:34,540 --> 01:42:32,480
you can keep keep the game going and I

2191
01:42:37,540 --> 01:42:34,550
suspect it's even these contact these

2192
01:42:41,070 --> 01:42:37,550
who were engaged in some degree of

2193
01:42:44,380 --> 01:42:41,080
conscious hoaxing at some point began

2194
01:42:46,870 --> 01:42:44,390
themselves to lose track of what was

2195
01:42:48,790 --> 01:42:46,880
true and what was not true I think there

2196
01:42:51,130 --> 01:42:48,800
was a really interesting psychology

2197
01:42:53,140 --> 01:42:51,140
going on there and I also think that

2198
01:42:54,040 --> 01:42:53,150
there were what I call experience

2199
01:42:56,590 --> 01:42:54,050
anomalies

2200
01:42:59,080 --> 01:42:56,600
you know muddling the whole picture and

2201
01:43:00,790 --> 01:42:59,090
I think that they closer you look at

2202
01:43:03,630 --> 01:43:00,800
some of these contacts the ones who

2203
01:43:06,220 --> 01:43:03,640
weren't just shameless charlatans

2204
01:43:07,870 --> 01:43:06,230
Opticon little old ladies out of their

2205
01:43:10,390 --> 01:43:07,880
life savings and I really weren't great

2206
01:43:13,510 --> 01:43:10,400
many of them but if you look closely at

2207
01:43:16,150 --> 01:43:13,520
the classic contact piece the stories

2208
01:43:18,580 --> 01:43:16,160
the whole phenomenon the whole world

2209
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:18,590
they existed in was ragged around the

2210
01:43:23,830 --> 01:43:21,890
edges it's not all black and white are

2211
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:23,840
other questions are a little closer to

2212
01:43:29,830 --> 01:43:27,050
the airship topic so let me go on in and

2213
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:29,840
read the one from Wade he says this

2214
01:43:32,980 --> 01:43:31,610
question may seem rather broad but it

2215
01:43:35,410 --> 01:43:32,990
seems to me that after a hundred years

2216
01:43:38,260 --> 01:43:35,420
plus this subject is brought on a

2217
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:38,270
renewed interest to which I question why

2218
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:40,010
it would be one thing if anyone thought

2219
01:43:43,960 --> 01:43:41,650
they were evidence of superior

2220
01:43:46,090 --> 01:43:43,970
aeronautical engineering at play or a

2221
01:43:46,780 --> 01:43:46,100
secret space program but they were just

2222
01:43:48,550 --> 01:43:46,790
balloons

2223
01:43:53,569 --> 01:43:48,560
apparently in use during the previous

2224
01:43:57,979 --> 01:43:53,579
century so do you agree with any of that

2225
01:44:00,020 --> 01:43:57,989
well they weren't durables and youths in

2226
01:44:02,270 --> 01:44:00,030
America at the time because there were

2227
01:44:04,819 --> 01:44:02,280
no dirigibles in America at the time

2228
01:44:07,430 --> 01:44:04,829
you know aeronautical historians are

2229
01:44:09,919 --> 01:44:07,440
insistent on that it's only people who

2230
01:44:11,450 --> 01:44:09,929
don't know the history the aeronautical

2231
01:44:14,359 --> 01:44:11,460
history who claimed they were just

2232
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:14,369
ordinary durables they weren't they were

2233
01:44:18,109 --> 01:44:16,530
fairly extraordinary in their way and

2234
01:44:20,649 --> 01:44:18,119
they were they were huge some of them

2235
01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:20,659
were described as 150 200 feet long

2236
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:23,280
whoever invented them was a real

2237
01:44:28,970 --> 01:44:26,610
inventor or conglomeration of inventors

2238
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:28,980
would have stood to make an enormous

2239
01:44:35,540 --> 01:44:32,010
amount of money but there is zero

2240
01:44:39,919 --> 01:44:35,550
evidence that these guys existed that

2241
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:39,929
their ships existed all we have is in

2242
01:44:44,750 --> 01:44:42,290
this testimony and they had acclaimed

2243
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:44,760
experiences of all kinds of people some

2244
01:44:50,180 --> 01:44:47,520
of them not reliable some of them

2245
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:50,190
apparently quite reliable and again this

2246
01:44:54,979 --> 01:44:52,650
was an international phenomenon that the

2247
01:44:57,500 --> 01:44:54,989
same thing was seen in a number of

2248
01:44:59,720 --> 01:44:57,510
different countries you know under

2249
01:45:02,780 --> 01:44:59,730
similar circumstances the descriptions

2250
01:45:07,189 --> 01:45:02,790
were the same and not in America not in

2251
01:45:15,049 --> 01:45:07,199
any of the other nations reported of a

2252
01:45:17,660 --> 01:45:15,059
secret society we are more with Jerome

2253
01:45:19,910 --> 01:45:17,670
Clark about the 1897 airship mystery

2254
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:19,920
Kirk Collins is our guest co-host you're

2255
01:45:36,859 --> 01:45:32,069
thank you for listening to GCS

2256
01:45:43,379 --> 01:45:40,109
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2302
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2304
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2305
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para cast the gold standard of

2306
01:48:03,400 --> 01:47:55,490
paranormal radio and now here's Jane

2307
01:48:05,950 --> 01:48:03,410
Steinberg they ask you something in a

2308
01:48:08,770 --> 01:48:05,960
moment here but what do you think about

2309
01:48:11,020 --> 01:48:08,780
stories and claims about a break away or

2310
01:48:13,300 --> 01:48:11,030
secret civilization because that

2311
01:48:25,950 --> 01:48:13,310
sometimes raised in connection with the

2312
01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:28,450
we've had a question from pig farmer

2313
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:30,050
this is similar to what we talked about

2314
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:32,570
but he says should the stories of 1897

2315
01:48:36,610 --> 01:48:34,850
airships be taken literally or they

2316
01:48:38,940 --> 01:48:36,620
meant as entertainment at the time has

2317
01:48:41,380 --> 01:48:38,950
had been lost in the intervening decades

2318
01:48:43,510 --> 01:48:41,390
well I think just a few minutes ago I

2319
01:48:46,330 --> 01:48:43,520
talked about their the entertainment

2320
01:48:49,450 --> 01:48:46,340
value stories like that like the Aurora

2321
01:48:53,740 --> 01:48:49,460
story of the Martian crash I'm sure was

2322
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:53,750
just made up to entertain people and it

2323
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:56,330
was understood by those who read the

2324
01:49:02,620 --> 01:48:59,360
story in 1897 said it was just simply

2325
01:49:05,740 --> 01:49:02,630
meant as amusement that it wasn't meant

2326
01:49:07,630 --> 01:49:05,750
as a description of a literal event yes

2327
01:49:09,820 --> 01:49:07,640
he read these old newspapers even now

2328
01:49:11,980 --> 01:49:09,830
you can see some of the humor some of

2329
01:49:14,770 --> 01:49:11,990
it's still funny do you know of other

2330
01:49:16,810 --> 01:49:14,780
examples where they did stories like

2331
01:49:19,840 --> 01:49:16,820
this that where they were playing jokes

2332
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:19,850
on residents I mean I I'm familiar with

2333
01:49:24,940 --> 01:49:22,130
the airship stories from the period well

2334
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:24,950
there were a lot of stories of wonders

2335
01:49:29,740 --> 01:49:27,050
of various kinds I think they'd be that

2336
01:49:32,740 --> 01:49:29,750
phony airship stories are part of the

2337
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:32,750
tradition of wonder stories marvels and

2338
01:49:39,270 --> 01:49:34,970
these the marvels and sort of things

2339
01:49:43,030 --> 01:49:39,280
like you know lake monsters creatures

2340
01:49:46,780 --> 01:49:43,040
various wonders things that you know

2341
01:49:49,060 --> 01:49:46,790
just seemed not possible people

2342
01:49:50,380 --> 01:49:49,070
supernatural encounters now I'm not

2343
01:49:53,770 --> 01:49:50,390
saying all these things were completely

2344
01:49:56,590 --> 01:49:53,780
false but if you were to make up a story

2345
01:49:58,930 --> 01:49:56,600
you would you would often make it a

2346
01:50:00,610 --> 01:49:58,940
ghost story or something like that or

2347
01:50:03,570 --> 01:50:00,620
just some other thing in if it's not

2348
01:50:06,340 --> 01:50:03,580
supernatural just some you know rather

2349
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:06,350
unusual and out of the ordinary and very

2350
01:50:12,700 --> 01:50:09,050
interesting claims about you know human

2351
01:50:16,870 --> 01:50:12,710
events some human experience yeah it

2352
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:16,880
wasn't just a bunch of stuff and I

2353
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:21,530
actually had a book come out some years

2354
01:50:27,010 --> 01:50:24,050
ago dealing with that I called the book

2355
01:50:30,160 --> 01:50:27,020
unnatural phenomena and it was about

2356
01:50:33,490 --> 01:50:30,170
these 19th century newspapers stories of

2357
01:50:36,790 --> 01:50:33,500
just fantastic things that probably

2358
01:50:39,610 --> 01:50:36,800
didn't happen in consensus reality or

2359
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:39,620
even in someone's perceived experience

2360
01:50:46,150 --> 01:50:42,170
but were just entertaining stories of

2361
01:50:48,670 --> 01:50:46,160
Marvel's and fantastic events on the

2362
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:48,680
other hand I don't think anyone and

2363
01:50:53,740 --> 01:50:51,010
except for very few people will remember

2364
01:50:57,550 --> 01:50:53,750
the hoaxes that Jim Mosely and grey

2365
01:50:58,740 --> 01:50:57,560
Barker did in the 50s and 60s I don't

2366
01:51:05,950 --> 01:50:58,750
think so I don't think they'll survive

2367
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:05,960
too few people cared about them right

2368
01:51:09,670 --> 01:51:07,730
but we don't have much time left

2369
01:51:13,230 --> 01:51:09,680
I'm not speaking about you Kurt but

2370
01:51:16,180 --> 01:51:13,240
Jerry and I are as old as the hills I

2371
01:51:18,670 --> 01:51:16,190
think that those are worth preserving

2372
01:51:20,350 --> 01:51:18,680
because some of those some of those did

2373
01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:20,360
have an impact certainly the men in

2374
01:51:25,150 --> 01:51:22,730
black had a lasting impact so it's good

2375
01:51:26,770 --> 01:51:25,160
to have that information you know some

2376
01:51:28,630 --> 01:51:26,780
people think that it's you know that's

2377
01:51:30,940 --> 01:51:28,640
the warts of ufology but I think that

2378
01:51:34,300 --> 01:51:30,950
has to be preserved too well you know

2379
01:51:37,780 --> 01:51:34,310
gray Barker's single-handedly created

2380
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:37,790
the men in black mystery yet when they

2381
01:51:44,980 --> 01:51:39,850
came out with the graphic comic book

2382
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:44,990
neither Ray Parker nor John keel were

2383
01:51:52,420 --> 01:51:49,010
paid for the germination of an idea that

2384
01:51:54,550 --> 01:51:52,430
resulted in billion-dollar grosses from

2385
01:51:56,680 --> 01:51:54,560
three major motion pictures well when

2386
01:51:59,670 --> 01:51:56,690
you say that Barker invented the idea of

2387
01:52:02,340 --> 01:51:59,680
men in black I mean that's true

2388
01:52:06,620 --> 01:52:02,350
sense but just today I was reading a

2389
01:52:10,650 --> 01:52:06,630
clipping from a hall was 1870s or 1880s

2390
01:52:13,590 --> 01:52:10,660
just printed out put in a file here

2391
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:13,600
which happened but this is there are men

2392
01:52:19,890 --> 01:52:16,210
in black stories that go back a long

2393
01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:19,900
time and even in the UFO context the

2394
01:52:24,420 --> 01:52:22,330
first men in black story in Wizard the

2395
01:52:27,420 --> 01:52:24,430
there was the man in black in the Maury

2396
01:52:31,230 --> 01:52:27,430
island case or the Maury island hopes

2397
01:52:33,540 --> 01:52:31,240
from June maybe then that Ray Palmer and

2398
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:33,550
Kenneth Arnold created the men in black

2399
01:52:38,730 --> 01:52:35,650
mystery I'm saying though other than

2400
01:52:42,690 --> 01:52:38,740
that Barker was a main figure in pushing

2401
01:52:46,740 --> 01:52:42,700
the idea yes but then you know I agree

2402
01:52:49,620 --> 01:52:46,750
with the observation that Palmer had a

2403
01:52:51,900 --> 01:52:49,630
lot of influence in the early UFO field

2404
01:52:55,020 --> 01:52:51,910
in fact he'll calls him the father of

2405
01:52:58,080 --> 01:52:55,030
ufology sightings were the father of

2406
01:53:01,140 --> 01:52:58,090
ufology or maybe Charles Porter was the

2407
01:53:04,110 --> 01:53:01,150
first one put sightings between book

2408
01:53:07,260 --> 01:53:04,120
covers and perceived that they were part

2409
01:53:09,660 --> 01:53:07,270
of an international phenomenon I don't

2410
01:53:12,500 --> 01:53:09,670
think that Palmer was that important to

2411
01:53:15,420 --> 01:53:12,510
figure except to a certain subset of

2412
01:53:17,850 --> 01:53:15,430
hardcore science fiction readers but if

2413
01:53:21,540 --> 01:53:17,860
you read the newspaper coverage in the

2414
01:53:25,230 --> 01:53:21,550
summer of 1947 you never see Palmer's a

2415
01:53:26,580 --> 01:53:25,240
mention but you do run across I think

2416
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:26,590
well some of the people that were

2417
01:53:30,870 --> 01:53:29,290
following Ray Palmer went on to be

2418
01:53:33,180 --> 01:53:30,880
influential and they were they were

2419
01:53:34,740 --> 01:53:33,190
devoted so there was there's something

2420
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:34,750
to that but you're right it was mainly

2421
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:36,970
driven by the events that were in the

2422
01:53:42,990 --> 01:53:40,570
news you know primary from deciding the

2423
01:53:45,630 --> 01:53:43,000
people who put this thing into a focus

2424
01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:45,640
if you read again this newspaper

2425
01:53:49,320 --> 01:53:47,410
coverage summer night for sandwiches our

2426
01:53:51,720 --> 01:53:49,330
best representation what was going on

2427
01:53:54,300 --> 01:53:51,730
that they were not Palmer right they

2428
01:53:56,010 --> 01:53:54,310
were members of the 40 in society and

2429
01:53:57,920 --> 01:53:56,020
they were the ones who were interviewed

2430
01:54:00,630 --> 01:53:57,930
and said look this is nothing new

2431
01:54:03,090 --> 01:54:00,640
sightings like this go back a long way

2432
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:03,100
which was a revelation to almost

2433
01:54:08,310 --> 01:54:05,530
everybody because the 14 Society was

2434
01:54:12,690 --> 01:54:08,320
tiny but these guys had special

2435
01:54:13,320 --> 01:54:12,700
knowledge that put a perspective on what

2436
01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:13,330
was going

2437
01:54:18,690 --> 01:54:15,970
after Kenneth Arnold sighting it's just

2438
01:54:22,470 --> 01:54:18,700
a myth that Palmer was a major figure in

2439
01:54:24,810 --> 01:54:22,480
this Palmer was a guy who who exploited

2440
01:54:27,570 --> 01:54:24,820
anything it could including Richard

2441
01:54:29,400 --> 01:54:27,580
shavers mental illness so he exploited

2442
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:29,410
flying-saucer sciences he exploited

2443
01:54:34,530 --> 01:54:31,810
everything but he wasn't the guy who

2444
01:54:37,200 --> 01:54:34,540
started it and he wasn't the guy who put

2445
01:54:39,150 --> 01:54:37,210
it into the context of extraterrestrial

2446
01:54:42,150 --> 01:54:39,160
visitation for the average newspaper

2447
01:54:43,530 --> 01:54:42,160
reader let me throw it outside question

2448
01:54:45,630 --> 01:54:43,540
after you here since we're talking about

2449
01:54:49,530 --> 01:54:45,640
an experience phenomenon an event

2450
01:54:52,320 --> 01:54:49,540
phenomenon and that is how much of UFO

2451
01:54:54,930 --> 01:54:52,330
sightings are really just the experience

2452
01:54:57,390 --> 01:54:54,940
as opposed to something that's possibly

2453
01:55:00,570 --> 01:54:57,400
has an external reality is an external

2454
01:55:03,030 --> 01:55:00,580
event I think that the high strangeness

2455
01:55:05,970 --> 01:55:03,040
cases are overwhelmingly experienced

2456
01:55:08,370 --> 01:55:05,980
anomalies I think that the event

2457
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:08,380
anomalies as I say are the hardcore

2458
01:55:14,100 --> 01:55:12,010
cases now some of them you know the

2459
01:55:16,830 --> 01:55:14,110
average witness doesn't have access to a

2460
01:55:18,990 --> 01:55:16,840
radar so we can't document that the

2461
01:55:21,380 --> 01:55:19,000
daylight disk you saw was physically

2462
01:55:24,630 --> 01:55:21,390
there but let's just assume that the the

2463
01:55:27,600 --> 01:55:24,640
ordinary UFO sighting of you know some

2464
01:55:31,020 --> 01:55:27,610
nocturnal light or daylight disk or

2465
01:55:34,650 --> 01:55:31,030
something like that is an observation of

2466
01:55:38,130 --> 01:55:34,660
an actual object whose existence is

2467
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:38,140
potentially documented but when somebody

2468
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:40,650
talks about men and black are monsters

2469
01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:44,050
otherworldly journeys abductions where

2470
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:45,850
you're just going off the scale and

2471
01:55:51,930 --> 01:55:48,370
strangeness and the stranger the story

2472
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:51,940
gets the less verifiable is the harder

2473
01:55:59,510 --> 01:55:54,970
it is to prove that it happened it's

2474
01:56:00,780 --> 01:55:59,520
actually the rather you know the typical

2475
01:56:03,390 --> 01:56:00,790
1950s

2476
01:56:06,030 --> 01:56:03,400
sightings that nycap was interested that

2477
01:56:08,490 --> 01:56:06,040
Kehoe was interested are really the

2478
01:56:13,160 --> 01:56:08,500
evidential cases because they involve

2479
01:56:15,990 --> 01:56:13,170
you know the kind of tech technological

2480
01:56:17,550 --> 01:56:16,000
verification this shows that something

2481
01:56:19,020 --> 01:56:17,560
was there that shouldn't have been there

2482
01:56:21,300 --> 01:56:19,030
and then had certain characteristics

2483
01:56:24,240 --> 01:56:21,310
that are really hard to explain in terms

2484
01:56:26,820 --> 01:56:24,250
of you know what we we as humans can do

2485
01:56:30,990 --> 01:56:26,830
with aerial vehicle

2486
01:56:35,070 --> 01:56:31,000
in our time but this time went by it was

2487
01:56:38,580 --> 01:56:35,080
fifty all the supernatural traditions

2488
01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:38,590
got attached to this core phenomenon

2489
01:56:48,300 --> 01:56:45,130
this core UFO phenomenon and themes that

2490
01:56:50,250 --> 01:56:48,310
are part of human experience as long as

2491
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:50,260
they're been humans get attached to this

2492
01:56:57,450 --> 01:56:53,290
and they take on the coloration of you

2493
01:57:00,750 --> 01:56:57,460
know extraterrestrial activity but it

2494
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:00,760
yields no proof or evidence that is

2495
01:57:07,590 --> 01:57:04,650
equal to the degree of its strangeness

2496
01:57:11,910 --> 01:57:07,600
you know and it just seems to me that

2497
01:57:14,820 --> 01:57:11,920
it's probably futile to connect say you

2498
01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:14,830
know you know some great radar visual

2499
01:57:21,630 --> 01:57:18,130
case with some fantastic abduction story

2500
01:57:25,860 --> 01:57:21,640
there they may be just we've got your

2501
01:57:28,170 --> 01:57:25,870
own Clark putting it together once again

2502
01:57:29,820 --> 01:57:28,180
Curtis Collins joins us more listen to

2503
01:57:34,530 --> 01:57:29,830
questions on the other side you're in

2504
01:57:39,340 --> 01:57:36,870
[Music]

2505
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attack of the rock ODEs has been

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well-received by critics and readers

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alike it's a thrill a minute story

2508
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you'll never forget a former US military

2509
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intelligence officer is haunted by

2510
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intense dreams about a beautiful woman

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pleading for his help after a terrible

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battle in outer space but the dreams

2513
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turn out to be true and thrust him into

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a telepathic love affair with a woman

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whose faraway planet is intent on

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destroying the earth and now the

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threaten the lives of freedom loving

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and the coming of the protectors classic

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comm this is Dan pillar do you owe the

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2608
02:01:44,320 --> 02:01:41,900
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2609
02:01:47,580 --> 02:01:44,330
if you have a comment or question about

2610
02:01:50,820 --> 02:01:47,590
the Peres cast sent it to news at the

2611
02:01:53,670 --> 02:01:50,830
Ericka's calm that's news at the para

2612
02:01:56,370 --> 02:01:53,680
caste calm and don't forget to visit our

2613
02:02:01,410 --> 02:01:56,380
famous para caste community forums at

2614
02:02:03,420 --> 02:02:01,420
forum dot the para cast calm Kurt more

2615
02:02:05,700 --> 02:02:03,430
questions wait a couple more there was

2616
02:02:07,830 --> 02:02:05,710
another one from pig farmer and he says

2617
02:02:10,710 --> 02:02:07,840
that in the great New England airship

2618
02:02:14,340 --> 02:02:10,720
hoax of 1909 and that's a that's a title

2619
02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:14,350
of Wallace Tillinghast claimed to have

2620
02:02:19,140 --> 02:02:16,810
invented an advanced flying machine that

2621
02:02:21,030 --> 02:02:19,150
he was testing at night this resulted a

2622
02:02:23,790 --> 02:02:21,040
number of people witnessing it and

2623
02:02:27,030 --> 02:02:23,800
reporting as such do you think something

2624
02:02:31,500 --> 02:02:27,040
very similar to the effects described in

2625
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:31,510
1909 were in at work in 1897 were people

2626
02:02:36,000 --> 02:02:34,570
seeing things because other people had

2627
02:02:39,120 --> 02:02:36,010
seen dirigibles

2628
02:02:40,740 --> 02:02:39,130
well yes no of course you're going to

2629
02:02:44,550 --> 02:02:40,750
have an effect like that

2630
02:02:47,490 --> 02:02:44,560
but I want to stress again the airship

2631
02:02:49,500 --> 02:02:47,500
for an international phenomenon and the

2632
02:02:52,050 --> 02:02:49,510
airships were described pretty much the

2633
02:02:53,490 --> 02:02:52,060
same way wherever they were see there

2634
02:02:56,460 --> 02:02:53,500
was no question the people who are

2635
02:03:00,210 --> 02:02:56,470
observing things that looked like you

2636
02:03:02,310 --> 02:03:00,220
know fantastic durables and my memory of

2637
02:03:05,070 --> 02:03:02,320
the Tillinghast affairs that little I

2638
02:03:07,410 --> 02:03:05,080
need it needs some refreshing but as I

2639
02:03:09,780 --> 02:03:07,420
recall I could be wrong if I am I should

2640
02:03:13,320 --> 02:03:09,790
be corrected telling us did to actually

2641
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:13,330
claim that he had invented these

2642
02:03:18,630 --> 02:03:16,810
airships he just let it let other people

2643
02:03:22,410 --> 02:03:18,640
believe that without specifically

2644
02:03:27,510 --> 02:03:22,420
denying it now in California November

2645
02:03:29,430 --> 02:03:27,520
1896 of December there were stories of

2646
02:03:31,980 --> 02:03:29,440
people who claimed that they had

2647
02:03:35,010 --> 02:03:31,990
invented it but the people were not

2648
02:03:38,730 --> 02:03:35,020
traceable there was a guy named eh

2649
02:03:41,160 --> 02:03:38,740
Benjamin claimed to be an agent or an

2650
02:03:44,030 --> 02:03:41,170
attorney for an inventor but that

2651
02:03:47,010 --> 02:03:44,040
inventor never showed up and never

2652
02:03:49,470 --> 02:03:47,020
revealed himself or even proved that he

2653
02:03:51,450 --> 02:03:49,480
existed so you know there's all these

2654
02:03:53,730 --> 02:03:51,460
stories that people you know people tell

2655
02:03:56,280 --> 02:03:53,740
stories it's kind of like crash saucers

2656
02:03:58,740 --> 02:03:56,290
you can always find someone he says he

2657
02:03:59,070 --> 02:03:58,750
was there he knew about it so on and so

2658
02:04:00,880 --> 02:03:59,080
on

2659
02:04:03,790 --> 02:04:00,890
but he could never prove it

2660
02:04:06,340 --> 02:04:03,800
and either the person is making an opera

2661
02:04:08,680 --> 02:04:06,350
or just has somehow convinced himself

2662
02:04:11,110 --> 02:04:08,690
this happened but it's just not provable

2663
02:04:13,330 --> 02:04:11,120
and eventually he realized that his

2664
02:04:15,010 --> 02:04:13,340
testimony is worthless as evidence I

2665
02:04:18,700 --> 02:04:15,020
think it's something like that kind of

2666
02:04:20,980 --> 02:04:18,710
social psychological process that

2667
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:20,990
reminds me a bit of the people in the

2668
02:04:25,570 --> 02:04:23,570
Old West claim to be some of the dead

2669
02:04:26,470 --> 02:04:25,580
outlaws or a lot of Jesse James and

2670
02:04:28,570 --> 02:04:26,480
Billy the Kid

2671
02:04:30,430 --> 02:04:28,580
walking around and I think our friend

2672
02:04:32,230 --> 02:04:30,440
Ray Palmer claimed to have discovered

2673
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:32,240
one of the survivors I forget which

2674
02:04:36,940 --> 02:04:34,010
outlaw it was but there was an old man

2675
02:04:42,220 --> 02:04:36,950
claiming to be a famous outlaw and had

2676
02:04:44,410 --> 02:04:42,230
his picture taken and that was

2677
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:44,420
absolutely false wheaton when if one

2678
02:04:51,220 --> 02:04:48,530
makes sure people know that so the last

2679
02:04:54,550 --> 02:04:51,230
listener question is from Angela Warren

2680
02:04:56,170 --> 02:04:54,560
and he asks how can we plot the changes

2681
02:04:58,060 --> 02:04:56,180
over time of what people have seen in

2682
02:05:00,550 --> 02:04:58,070
the skies we went from airships to

2683
02:05:02,920 --> 02:05:00,560
saucers to eggs to cigars and most

2684
02:05:04,600 --> 02:05:02,930
recently triangles what can we gather

2685
02:05:06,940 --> 02:05:04,610
from this change of what people are

2686
02:05:09,910 --> 02:05:06,950
seeing has a tech of whatever we are

2687
02:05:11,980 --> 02:05:09,920
seeing changed or more likely in my

2688
02:05:24,250 --> 02:05:11,990
opinion it is only because humans are

2689
02:05:27,610 --> 02:05:24,260
projecting their own understanding the

2690
02:05:32,680 --> 02:05:27,620
modern UFO age really did not begin in

2691
02:05:37,030 --> 02:05:32,690
June 1947 it actually began in the early

2692
02:05:39,280 --> 02:05:37,040
1940s and as we've gotten access to all

2693
02:05:41,410 --> 02:05:39,290
kinds of newspaper stories official

2694
02:05:45,610 --> 02:05:41,420
documents about Foo Fighters and so on

2695
02:05:48,430 --> 02:05:45,620
we see virtually the entire modern UFO

2696
02:05:51,970 --> 02:05:48,440
phenomenon there you know about starting

2697
02:05:57,450 --> 02:05:51,980
in about 1940 people describing exactly

2698
02:06:01,270 --> 02:05:57,460
the kinds of UFO saucers discs triangles

2699
02:06:03,450 --> 02:06:01,280
cigar shapes all these things that that

2700
02:06:10,210 --> 02:06:03,460
have been reported since actually began

2701
02:06:14,290 --> 02:06:10,220
about 1940 and so the UFO phenomenon is

2702
02:06:16,840 --> 02:06:14,300
actually older than the modern phenomena

2703
02:06:18,760 --> 02:06:16,850
few years older than we think it is and

2704
02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:18,770
the only thing that's changed is that

2705
02:06:24,910 --> 02:06:21,770
all these high strangeness stories and

2706
02:06:28,540 --> 02:06:24,920
experiences over time to attach to that

2707
02:06:31,300 --> 02:06:28,550
core the core is remained amazingly

2708
02:06:32,860 --> 02:06:31,310
stable there's a very good book that was

2709
02:06:35,230 --> 02:06:32,870
written a few years ago I wrote actually

2710
02:06:39,190 --> 02:06:35,240
wrote the foreword to it by a guy named

2711
02:06:41,110 --> 02:06:39,200
Keith Chester it's a book on the Foo

2712
02:06:43,630 --> 02:06:41,120
Fighters as virtually the definitive

2713
02:06:45,670 --> 02:06:43,640
treatment he did enormous amount of

2714
02:06:49,210 --> 02:06:45,680
research and as I pointed out in the

2715
02:06:51,220 --> 02:06:49,220
foreword this book documents that this

2716
02:06:55,060 --> 02:06:51,230
phenomenon is a few years older than we

2717
02:06:57,490 --> 02:06:55,070
thought it was so the change is is the

2718
02:06:59,620 --> 02:06:57,500
change is not in the basic UFO it's in

2719
02:07:03,490 --> 02:06:59,630
the high strangeness that becomes

2720
02:07:06,910 --> 02:07:03,500
attached to that basic phenomenon our

2721
02:07:10,900 --> 02:07:06,920
kala edy rupal reading his book he makes

2722
02:07:13,540 --> 02:07:10,910
a maddeningly brief mention of having

2723
02:07:14,470 --> 02:07:13,550
witnessed food fighters himself and I

2724
02:07:15,940 --> 02:07:14,480
mean I thought that was really

2725
02:07:19,300 --> 02:07:15,950
interesting and I certainly wanted to

2726
02:07:22,320 --> 02:07:19,310
hear more about it I don't remember that

2727
02:07:25,450 --> 02:07:22,330
I remember he's talked he writes briefly

2728
02:07:32,430 --> 02:07:25,460
about meeting an old guy who had seen

2729
02:07:34,720 --> 02:07:32,440
the 1896 airship in California and

2730
02:07:38,650 --> 02:07:34,730
virtually nobody got to talk

2731
02:07:40,300 --> 02:07:38,660
face-to-face nobody in our time or at

2732
02:07:42,760 --> 02:07:40,310
least an earlier time these guys would

2733
02:07:45,070 --> 02:07:42,770
still been alive got to talk with a

2734
02:07:46,750 --> 02:07:45,080
witness to the airship that would have

2735
02:07:50,430 --> 02:07:46,760
been really good because it would have

2736
02:07:53,620 --> 02:07:50,440
been unmitigated by this often faulty

2737
02:07:55,600 --> 02:07:53,630
dubious newspaper coverage but Rubel

2738
02:07:58,120 --> 02:07:55,610
doesn't go into any detail it just says

2739
02:08:00,340 --> 02:07:58,130
the guy saw this thing he doesn't really

2740
02:08:03,100 --> 02:08:00,350
go into at night it's very frustrating I

2741
02:08:04,990 --> 02:08:03,110
wish he had I wanted to ask what you

2742
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:05,000
thought about something that was kind of

2743
02:08:09,340 --> 02:08:07,250
in between the airships and before the

2744
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:09,350
40s era there was there were a number of

2745
02:08:20,350 --> 02:08:11,810
mystery airplane reports have you looked

2746
02:08:24,460 --> 02:08:20,360
into those but the problem is that the

2747
02:08:27,410 --> 02:08:24,470
vocabulary in the early age of aviation

2748
02:08:30,650 --> 02:08:27,420
is a little Shady

2749
02:08:32,479 --> 02:08:30,660
it's a little ambiguous so sometimes

2750
02:08:35,270 --> 02:08:32,489
they both refer to something as a

2751
02:08:38,750 --> 02:08:35,280
quote-unquote aeroplane and other times

2752
02:08:41,930 --> 02:08:38,760
I'll call it an airship and you have to

2753
02:08:43,310 --> 02:08:41,940
really read and look for the detail to

2754
02:08:46,160 --> 02:08:43,320
find out exactly whether they're

2755
02:08:48,860 --> 02:08:46,170
referring to like a monoplane a biplane

2756
02:08:52,370 --> 02:08:48,870
or like a dirigible it's not always

2757
02:08:56,959 --> 02:08:52,380
clear because the vocabulary begins to

2758
02:08:58,640 --> 02:08:56,969
change in the early 20th century so

2759
02:09:02,689 --> 02:08:58,650
there were mystery airplanes that

2760
02:09:06,290 --> 02:09:02,699
apparently were biplanes or herb I know

2761
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:06,300
planes of whether these were mysterious

2762
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:09,570
to the people of the time and and had no

2763
02:09:14,780 --> 02:09:13,050
clear origin but it's just it's just

2764
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:14,790
hard to say what they were about they

2765
02:09:18,709 --> 02:09:17,010
were could very well have been just an

2766
02:09:22,430 --> 02:09:18,719
evolutionary development of the airships

2767
02:09:26,360 --> 02:09:22,440
nomina but they're at by but by that

2768
02:09:29,840 --> 02:09:26,370
time there were genuine airplanes flying

2769
02:09:32,270 --> 02:09:29,850
around they were rare they there if they

2770
02:09:33,919 --> 02:09:32,280
flew over your town that was a novel

2771
02:09:37,640 --> 02:09:33,929
experience that people came running out

2772
02:09:39,290 --> 02:09:37,650
to see it but they were there so it's

2773
02:09:41,870 --> 02:09:39,300
just it's just hard to know what to make

2774
02:09:44,030 --> 02:09:41,880
of these stories they're not in other

2775
02:09:46,520 --> 02:09:44,040
words as clearly anomalous as the

2776
02:09:48,890 --> 02:09:46,530
airship reports were if I can change the

2777
02:09:50,030 --> 02:09:48,900
subject I wanted to ask you about you

2778
02:09:52,610 --> 02:09:50,040
because you were talking about how

2779
02:09:55,430 --> 02:09:52,620
talking to one of the few witnesses what

2780
02:09:57,770 --> 02:09:55,440
you it's understanding you met with

2781
02:10:00,050 --> 02:09:57,780
Kenneth Arnold then and had access to

2782
02:10:02,840 --> 02:10:00,060
some of his research I think very few

2783
02:10:05,300 --> 02:10:02,850
people in the UFO scene now realize how

2784
02:10:07,160 --> 02:10:05,310
much of a UFO investigator he was and

2785
02:10:08,930 --> 02:10:07,170
the people that he wouldn't he the

2786
02:10:11,330 --> 02:10:08,940
witnesses he talked to the reports he

2787
02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:11,340
collected so what kind of records did he

2788
02:10:15,350 --> 02:10:13,530
have did you get a look at those we'll

2789
02:10:17,390 --> 02:10:15,360
have the answer to that question about

2790
02:10:20,300 --> 02:10:17,400
Kenneth Arnold and more with Jerome

2791
02:10:28,050 --> 02:10:20,310
Clark and Curtin Jean you're in the

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you are listening to GCN

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visit GCN live.com today hear that

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break-in go to fake tv.com and discover

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radio okay Jerry you met Kenneth Arnold

2895
02:15:10,490 --> 02:15:06,929
I knew it tell us more

2896
02:15:14,930 --> 02:15:10,500
well he was pretty much as advertised

2897
02:15:18,200 --> 02:15:14,940
an ordinary unimaginative guy yes he's a

2898
02:15:21,620 --> 02:15:18,210
very much a westerner and conservative

2899
02:15:23,419 --> 02:15:21,630
both socially and politically you know

2900
02:15:25,189 --> 02:15:23,429
he wasn't stupid but he wasn't an

2901
02:15:28,160 --> 02:15:25,199
intellectual let's put it that way I

2902
02:15:29,959 --> 02:15:28,170
like but he was an ordinary guy and he

2903
02:15:32,510 --> 02:15:29,969
wasn't anybody who made this stuff up

2904
02:15:35,959 --> 02:15:32,520
and basically if you asked him what he

2905
02:15:38,930 --> 02:15:35,969
thought he basically parodied break

2906
02:15:41,180 --> 02:15:38,940
Palmer because Palmer was the first guy

2907
02:15:43,580 --> 02:15:41,190
that he hooked up with after his

2908
02:15:45,709 --> 02:15:43,590
sighting and he was completely confused

2909
02:15:48,589 --> 02:15:45,719
by what he'd seen and he needed somebody

2910
02:15:52,450 --> 02:15:48,599
who sounded as if he knew what he was

2911
02:15:56,479 --> 02:15:52,460
talking about the Gaiden so even in the

2912
02:15:58,160 --> 02:15:56,489
1970s 1980s when I knew Arnold I'd say

2913
02:16:01,399 --> 02:15:58,170
well what do you think about this you

2914
02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:01,409
can say well my buddy Ray Palmer said I

2915
02:16:07,729 --> 02:16:05,010
just get some cockeyed Palmer thing but

2916
02:16:09,530 --> 02:16:07,739
I had the impression that Arnold really

2917
02:16:12,080 --> 02:16:09,540
didn't think about these things when he

2918
02:16:15,589 --> 02:16:12,090
wasn't being called upon as a guy who

2919
02:16:18,439 --> 02:16:15,599
had heralded the UFO age what happened

2920
02:16:21,229 --> 02:16:18,449
was that after Arnold had is saying in

2921
02:16:23,569 --> 02:16:21,239
June 1947 he really got interested in he

2922
02:16:26,359 --> 02:16:23,579
loved to fly he loved to fly around the

2923
02:16:28,310 --> 02:16:26,369
northwest and just do this and that and

2924
02:16:29,899 --> 02:16:28,320
so he decided he was one thing he was

2925
02:16:32,570 --> 02:16:29,909
going to do is slice playing around the

2926
02:16:34,700 --> 02:16:32,580
northwest and look personally into some

2927
02:16:37,610 --> 02:16:34,710
of the UFO reports they read a newspaper

2928
02:16:39,589 --> 02:16:37,620
so he was I wrong he talked to people he

2929
02:16:43,400 --> 02:16:39,599
talked to people who claimed they had

2930
02:16:46,190 --> 02:16:43,410
seen flying men in the early part of

2931
02:16:49,009 --> 02:16:46,200
1948 in the state of washing

2932
02:16:51,560 --> 02:16:49,019
and and the most memorable one the one

2933
02:16:54,020 --> 02:16:51,570
that I wrote about was his interview

2934
02:16:56,570 --> 02:16:54,030
with Samuel E Thompson the guy who

2935
02:16:56,870 --> 02:16:56,580
claimed he admitted the naked Venusian

2936
02:17:01,370 --> 02:16:56,880
z--

2937
02:17:04,490 --> 02:17:01,380
and I got Thompson's tape of his

2938
02:17:06,980 --> 02:17:04,500
interview with Thompson Thompson's

2939
02:17:09,740 --> 02:17:06,990
experience took place in the early

2940
02:17:12,020 --> 02:17:09,750
spring of 1950 and I've written about

2941
02:17:14,509 --> 02:17:12,030
that I've given the full account of that

2942
02:17:16,580 --> 02:17:14,519
story and it was really interesting I

2943
02:17:19,700 --> 02:17:16,590
was thinking about this recently in fact

2944
02:17:24,049 --> 02:17:19,710
Arnold's interview with Samuel Eden

2945
02:17:28,750 --> 02:17:24,059
Thompson and pearl had the classic event

2946
02:17:33,110 --> 02:17:28,760
anomaly UFO sighting Thompson had a

2947
02:17:37,280 --> 02:17:33,120
classic experience anomaly UFO encounter

2948
02:17:40,009 --> 02:17:37,290
and so between them when Arnold was

2949
02:17:42,589 --> 02:17:40,019
talking with Samuel Eden Thompson you

2950
02:17:47,030 --> 02:17:42,599
were dealing with the two extremes of

2951
02:17:48,890 --> 02:17:47,040
what would become the UFO experience and

2952
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:48,900
I'm thinking about writing an essay on

2953
02:17:54,919 --> 02:17:51,210
and what that was like the symbolic

2954
02:17:57,759 --> 02:17:54,929
significance of that meeting it was even

2955
02:18:02,870 --> 02:17:57,769
story did did did receive press coverage

2956
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:02,880
very little Thompson story yes very nice

2957
02:18:06,140 --> 02:18:04,290
yeah there were only one or two

2958
02:18:09,200 --> 02:18:06,150
newspaper stories and they were not

2959
02:18:11,509 --> 02:18:09,210
detailed they they reported that this

2960
02:18:14,570 --> 02:18:11,519
guy was an old guys about 70 years old

2961
02:18:18,200 --> 02:18:14,580
retired railroad and that he was driving

2962
02:18:21,049 --> 02:18:18,210
home to rural Washington and he had seen

2963
02:18:26,540 --> 02:18:21,059
this saucer on the ground and he he went

2964
02:18:28,190 --> 02:18:26,550
to examine it and he saw these well the

2965
02:18:31,060 --> 02:18:28,200
story goes Alvin essentia these were

2966
02:18:35,169 --> 02:18:31,070
like a panic the notions they were

2967
02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:35,179
beautiful naked men women and children

2968
02:18:40,610 --> 02:18:38,250
who were just incredibly innocent and

2969
02:18:43,820 --> 02:18:40,620
didn't even really know how to fly their

2970
02:18:47,660 --> 02:18:43,830
saucer and he claimed that he had stayed

2971
02:18:50,120 --> 02:18:47,670
with them for about three days and the

2972
02:18:52,730 --> 02:18:50,130
story is completely off the charts of

2973
02:18:54,379 --> 02:18:52,740
course but if you listen this tape and

2974
02:18:56,719 --> 02:18:54,389
this was Arnold's impression as well

2975
02:18:59,390 --> 02:18:56,729
Carl told me there was no question this

2976
02:18:59,959 --> 02:18:59,400
guy believed it now Arnold thought the

2977
02:19:03,290 --> 02:18:59,969
story was

2978
02:19:05,150 --> 02:19:03,300
ridiculous that he endorsed his wife or

2979
02:19:06,229 --> 02:19:05,160
you can hear them having a hard time

2980
02:19:09,259 --> 02:19:06,239
keep a straight face

2981
02:19:12,979 --> 02:19:09,269
is this completely earnest guy relates

2982
02:19:18,229 --> 02:19:12,989
this bizarre outlandish tale he says

2983
02:19:19,429 --> 02:19:18,239
happened to but Arnold knew this guy

2984
02:19:21,530 --> 02:19:19,439
really meant it

2985
02:19:24,679 --> 02:19:21,540
and there all kinds of clues to you if

2986
02:19:26,809 --> 02:19:24,689
you if you listen carefully to what he's

2987
02:19:28,759 --> 02:19:26,819
saying the way says it it's very hard to

2988
02:19:31,099 --> 02:19:28,769
believe that he made this up it's

2989
02:19:33,830 --> 02:19:31,109
equally impossible to believe that has

2990
02:19:36,019 --> 02:19:33,840
happened in consensus reality so the

2991
02:19:39,429 --> 02:19:36,029
only thing that Arnold could figure out

2992
02:19:42,650 --> 02:19:39,439
was it this guy it had some kind of

2993
02:19:43,459 --> 02:19:42,660
visionary experience or unusually vivid

2994
02:19:47,089 --> 02:19:43,469
dreams

2995
02:19:49,490 --> 02:19:47,099
I think that's yeah given you know

2996
02:19:50,929 --> 02:19:49,500
Arnold vocabulary is understanding I

2997
02:19:53,660 --> 02:19:50,939
think is probably pretty close to the

2998
02:19:57,080 --> 02:19:53,670
truth but this was clearly what I would

2999
02:19:59,179 --> 02:19:57,090
call an experience anomaly well about

3000
02:20:01,370 --> 02:19:59,189
that tape does do you still have a copy

3001
02:20:08,420 --> 02:20:01,380
of it this is that available in any

3002
02:20:19,280 --> 02:20:08,430
anywhere no unfortunately there's things

3003
02:20:21,710 --> 02:20:19,290
that happened to me that must but the

3004
02:20:25,130 --> 02:20:21,720
good news is that a full transcript of

3005
02:20:27,740 --> 02:20:25,140
the tape was made and was with on that

3006
02:20:30,440 --> 02:20:27,750
with Piper I heard the tape before it

3007
02:20:32,510 --> 02:20:30,450
disappeared and yeah I had the

3008
02:20:33,950 --> 02:20:32,520
transcripts so I was able to give a full

3009
02:20:37,969 --> 02:20:33,960
account of everything that's on that

3010
02:20:41,210 --> 02:20:37,979
tape so there's no part of the story

3011
02:20:44,510 --> 02:20:41,220
that's missing do you know if any of his

3012
02:20:45,920 --> 02:20:44,520
UFO records survived now that's a whole

3013
02:20:50,650 --> 02:20:45,930
other story and the answer is

3014
02:20:55,190 --> 02:20:50,660
unfortunately no there was back in the

3015
02:20:59,690 --> 02:20:55,200
1990's I was dealing with one of his

3016
02:21:05,929 --> 02:20:59,700
daughters in an effort to reclaim his

3017
02:21:10,219 --> 02:21:05,939
files and it turns out that they were

3018
02:21:13,850 --> 02:21:10,229
discarded long ago all the case material

3019
02:21:15,860 --> 02:21:13,860
that he had from me from the late 40s

3020
02:21:19,341 --> 02:21:15,870
Fifty's that he collected from his own

3021
02:21:22,551 --> 02:21:19,351
investigations it's all gone apparently

3022
02:21:25,251 --> 02:21:22,561
was this thrown away he died I believe

3023
02:21:28,610 --> 02:21:25,261
in 1984 my memory is correct

3024
02:21:30,501 --> 02:21:28,620
and all of his files so I don't think

3025
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:30,511
anybody really understood what he had

3026
02:21:35,480 --> 02:21:32,730
and it was a few years later in the

3027
02:21:38,570 --> 02:21:35,490
early 1990s when something realized you

3028
02:21:41,511 --> 02:21:38,580
know I was going to fly out to Meridian

3029
02:21:47,720 --> 02:21:41,521
Idaho to collect that stuff and turned

3030
02:21:50,870 --> 02:21:47,730
out it didn't exist it's not uncommon I

3031
02:21:55,400 --> 02:21:50,880
remember after Jim Mosely died his

3032
02:21:59,331 --> 02:21:55,410
daughter Betty took all of the stuff

3033
02:22:02,301 --> 02:21:59,341
that she thought had value and had a

3034
02:22:03,740 --> 02:22:02,311
garage sale in fact somebody posted in

3035
02:22:17,081 --> 02:22:03,750
our forums saying would you like to buy

3036
02:22:24,320 --> 02:22:20,690
what's also the point where a real life

3037
02:22:29,240 --> 02:22:24,330
gets involved and you're trying to cut

3038
02:22:31,160 --> 02:22:29,250
back and you have 3000 pounds of stuff

3039
02:22:33,560 --> 02:22:31,170
and you want to make it 2,000 pounds and

3040
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:33,570
you think am I ever gonna use this UFO

3041
02:22:41,780 --> 02:22:36,570
stuff again what value does it have and

3042
02:22:45,051 --> 02:22:41,790
I've done some of that really within the

3043
02:22:46,671 --> 02:22:45,061
family that for example the husband the

3044
02:22:48,440 --> 02:22:46,681
father was spending too much time

3045
02:22:51,680 --> 02:22:48,450
running out on weekends and interviewing

3046
02:22:53,810 --> 02:22:51,690
the whole witnesses and collecting UFO

3047
02:22:56,171 --> 02:22:53,820
materials bringing up books attending

3048
02:22:58,850 --> 02:22:56,181
UFO conferences neglecting the family

3049
02:23:02,320 --> 02:22:58,860
and so by the time the guy dies there's

3050
02:23:05,180 --> 02:23:02,330
some real resent of his youthful

3051
02:23:11,751 --> 02:23:05,190
involvement and so the vengeance comes

3052
02:23:14,120 --> 02:23:11,761
in destroying his life in cases yeah I

3053
02:23:17,831 --> 02:23:14,130
can see where that happens and why that

3054
02:23:20,631 --> 02:23:17,841
happens but at the same token Jim was

3055
02:23:22,910 --> 02:23:20,641
giving a lot of stuff away deliberately

3056
02:23:24,740 --> 02:23:22,920
to a few people that he'd liked he sent

3057
02:23:27,190 --> 02:23:24,750
me some stuff he sent somebody in New

3058
02:23:30,370 --> 02:23:27,200
Jersey who was head of a you

3059
02:23:33,250 --> 02:23:30,380
organization way back when is he send

3060
02:23:35,440 --> 02:23:33,260
that stuff to him as well mostly because

3061
02:23:37,390 --> 02:23:35,450
he just you know was trying to cut back

3062
02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:37,400
in his life and he never thought he'd

3063
02:23:42,131 --> 02:23:39,610
have any need of any of that material

3064
02:23:43,930 --> 02:23:42,141
for better or worse I have another

3065
02:23:46,091 --> 02:23:43,940
question which kind of goes back to the

3066
02:23:50,051 --> 02:23:46,101
early UFO cases that seem to have more

3067
02:23:51,970 --> 02:23:50,061
solidity about them and we've talked

3068
02:23:53,650 --> 02:23:51,980
about this before but I'll raise it and

3069
02:23:55,540 --> 02:23:53,660
we can discuss it in further detail in

3070
02:23:59,620 --> 02:23:55,550
the final segment plus whatever else

3071
02:24:01,600 --> 02:23:59,630
cursed wants to bring up and that is how

3072
02:24:05,820 --> 02:24:01,610
much of what we saw in the early days

3073
02:24:08,860 --> 02:24:05,830
was really secret test aircraft and

3074
02:24:11,680 --> 02:24:08,870
maybe people misinterpret a few things

3075
02:24:14,051 --> 02:24:11,690
and the secret aircraft suddenly is

3076
02:24:16,650 --> 02:24:14,061
doing all sorts of maneuvers that it

3077
02:24:20,470 --> 02:24:16,660
really couldn't do more to come with

3078
02:24:29,140 --> 02:24:20,480
Jerry Jean and Kurt you're in the para

3079
02:24:37,330 --> 02:24:33,040
thank you for listening to GCN

3080
02:24:39,760 --> 02:24:37,340
be sure to visit GCN live.com today as

3081
02:24:42,580 --> 02:24:39,770
you know neighbors web-hosting can be

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pretty cheap but not all hosting is the

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3092
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3093
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there is the coming of the protectors a

3094
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former military intelligence man is

3095
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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

3096
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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

3097
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because evil forces on our distant

3098
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

3099
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this is gripping science fiction of the

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and the coming of the protectors find

3102
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3106
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3109
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3112
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3116
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only at slingbow comm hear that that's

3117
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the sound of a house being trashed while

3118
02:26:15,461 --> 02:26:13,341
a gang of thieves ransacked the place

3119
02:26:18,581 --> 02:26:15,471
and what they don't steal will be

3120
02:26:20,741 --> 02:26:18,591
destroyed this year resolve not to be

3121
02:26:22,991 --> 02:26:20,751
the next victim of a break-in go to fake

3122
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tv.com and discover a device that

3123
02:26:27,281 --> 02:26:24,980
creates the illusion someone inside is

3124
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watching TV even when you're miles away

3125
02:26:32,470 --> 02:26:30,320
security is a mindset and fake TV should

3126
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be part of your security solution be

3127
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vigilant but not fearful fake tv.com one

3128
02:26:42,671 --> 02:26:40,671
out of four people listening to my voice

3129
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right now could die from heart disease

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this could be your last year and you

3131
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don't even know it because you don't

3132
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know the early warning signs if you

3133
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think you're safe because your

3134
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cholesterol levels are normal

3135
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think again because studies show that

3136
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75% of heart attack patients also had

3137
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normal cholesterol levels let me

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3141
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3142
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3146
02:27:15,310 --> 02:27:13,851
the founder of the grow Network which is

3147
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an online community of people who

3148
02:27:19,720 --> 02:27:17,721
produce their own food and medicine we

3149
02:27:21,970 --> 02:27:19,730
are really in the backyard self-reliance

3150
02:27:23,501 --> 02:27:21,980
if you want this lifestyle I suggest

3151
02:27:26,201 --> 02:27:23,511
your first step be to learn some basic

3152
02:27:28,421 --> 02:27:26,211
home medicine just the other day my 18

3153
02:27:30,970 --> 02:27:28,431
year old son came to me and said mama I

3154
02:27:32,921 --> 02:27:30,980
got a sore throat can you fix me up and

3155
02:27:35,291 --> 02:27:32,931
I said sure Ryan and in about 24 hours

3156
02:27:37,421 --> 02:27:35,301
he was better the best home medicine for

3157
02:27:39,461 --> 02:27:37,431
you to start out with is garlic it's an

3158
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amazing natural antibiotic and I can

3159
02:27:43,211 --> 02:27:41,091
show you how to use garlic to handle ear

3160
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infections sore throats colds and flues

3161
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as a way for you to get to know a little

3162
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bit but more about me in the grow

3163
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Network I've written up an easy

3164
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introduction on how to use garlic it's

3165
02:27:55,001 --> 02:27:52,971
at GC and wellness.com

3166
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now the station manager told me that I

3167
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needed to say the URL at least twice

3168
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even though it feels kind of weird but

3169
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if you're interested in backyard

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self-reliance you are one of us go to

3171
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WWE CN wellness.com and let's connect up

3172
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the answer to being in control of your

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vision and pharmacy go to Liberty

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3185
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that's Liberty on call org the podcast

3186
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the gold standard of car normal radio so

3187
02:29:02,840 --> 02:28:59,830
Jerry Clark what do you think about the

3188
02:29:04,679 --> 02:29:02,850
impact of early government

3189
02:29:06,960 --> 02:29:04,689
experimentation especially with the

3190
02:29:15,710 --> 02:29:06,970
stuff they picked up from the Nazis at

3191
02:29:21,719 --> 02:29:19,349
passage of time the secret weapon or the

3192
02:29:23,160 --> 02:29:21,729
secret experimental aircraft with

3193
02:29:25,980 --> 02:29:23,170
extraordinary performance

3194
02:29:28,880 --> 02:29:25,990
characteristics becomes more real and a

3195
02:29:31,950 --> 02:29:28,890
real part a real possibility when you're

3196
02:29:34,710 --> 02:29:31,960
investigating UFO case that this indeed

3197
02:29:37,710 --> 02:29:34,720
could be some kind of advanced weapons

3198
02:29:40,040 --> 02:29:37,720
technology and aviation technology that

3199
02:29:43,110 --> 02:29:40,050
is within our capacity is just

3200
02:29:45,630 --> 02:29:43,120
classified but in those days back in the

3201
02:29:47,910 --> 02:29:45,640
early days we know what the what the

3202
02:29:50,969 --> 02:29:47,920
aircraft technology was then and it

3203
02:29:54,270 --> 02:29:50,979
didn't it couldn't imitate but flying

3204
02:29:56,670 --> 02:29:54,280
disc wings but in time over the decades

3205
02:29:59,540 --> 02:29:56,680
yes when you're investigating a case or

3206
02:30:02,520 --> 02:29:59,550
someone tells you about saying you know

3207
02:30:04,410 --> 02:30:02,530
observing a big triangular shaped craft

3208
02:30:08,160 --> 02:30:04,420
you'd have to consider the possibility

3209
02:30:11,190 --> 02:30:08,170
it could be one of ours and as I said is

3210
02:30:14,700 --> 02:30:11,200
it possible the reason they seem so

3211
02:30:16,740 --> 02:30:14,710
strange is because maybe people put too

3212
02:30:19,620 --> 02:30:16,750
many things into it you know the

3213
02:30:22,260 --> 02:30:19,630
information is not quite accurate and if

3214
02:30:24,690 --> 02:30:22,270
you exaggerate it in one direction as

3215
02:30:33,020 --> 02:30:24,700
opposed to another it seems stranger

3216
02:30:36,520 --> 02:30:36,120
for fear ridicule or just their own in a

3217
02:30:42,161 --> 02:30:36,530
bill

3218
02:30:45,461 --> 02:30:42,171
to process a truly unexpected experience

3219
02:30:47,350 --> 02:30:45,471
just simply out of their expectation of

3220
02:30:50,651 --> 02:30:47,360
what you can see your experience I think

3221
02:30:53,441 --> 02:30:50,661
that that plays a larger role in many

3222
02:30:56,470 --> 02:30:53,451
cases than in the cases of exaggeration

3223
02:30:59,861 --> 02:30:56,480
and wishful thinking there's a real

3224
02:31:02,501 --> 02:30:59,871
strong social pushback against people

3225
02:31:04,810 --> 02:31:02,511
reporting strange experiences so we

3226
02:31:06,821 --> 02:31:04,820
internalize that and if we do have a

3227
02:31:09,511 --> 02:31:06,831
strange experience or strange

3228
02:31:13,980 --> 02:31:09,521
observation we really try to minimalize

3229
02:31:19,421 --> 02:31:13,990
it's defiance that ordinarily understood

3230
02:31:21,310 --> 02:31:19,431
so therefore it's different it's taking

3231
02:31:24,100 --> 02:31:21,320
a case and making it more mundane than

3232
02:31:26,980 --> 02:31:24,110
it truly is I think that happens because

3233
02:31:30,220 --> 02:31:26,990
people don't appreciate I always

3234
02:31:33,401 --> 02:31:30,230
maintain I'm surprised this is not

3235
02:31:37,810 --> 02:31:33,411
widely understood the single biggest

3236
02:31:40,751 --> 02:31:37,820
social factor in UFO history is the

3237
02:31:44,161 --> 02:31:40,761
presence of ridicule ridicule is defined

3238
02:31:47,831 --> 02:31:44,171
almost everything that has gone on since

3239
02:31:50,890 --> 02:31:47,841
reported sightings UFO sightings UFO

3240
02:31:54,341 --> 02:31:50,900
beliefs and theories have always been

3241
02:31:56,261 --> 02:31:54,351
expressed in defiance withering ridicule

3242
02:31:58,511 --> 02:31:56,271
and that's one reason there's no

3243
02:32:00,461 --> 02:31:58,521
scientific advancement of the subject

3244
02:32:03,961 --> 02:32:00,471
because scientists don't want to be

3245
02:32:06,430 --> 02:32:03,971
ridiculed why people who see UFOs

3246
02:32:08,621 --> 02:32:06,440
usually don't talk about it they don't

3247
02:32:10,301 --> 02:32:08,631
want to be ridiculed people don't want

3248
02:32:11,680 --> 02:32:10,311
to be associated with it because they

3249
02:32:14,470 --> 02:32:11,690
don't want to be ridiculed

3250
02:32:16,961 --> 02:32:14,480
so knowledge does not advance people

3251
02:32:19,691 --> 02:32:16,971
just cover their heads because they

3252
02:32:22,871 --> 02:32:19,701
don't want society to be making fun of

3253
02:32:26,191 --> 02:32:22,881
them I make two points about that one is

3254
02:32:29,291 --> 02:32:26,201
to challenge it just a bit that ridicule

3255
02:32:31,361 --> 02:32:29,301
pre-existed it was this existed and was

3256
02:32:34,121 --> 02:32:31,371
an effect way before flying saucers and

3257
02:32:35,861 --> 02:32:34,131
even sea serpents and and probably I

3258
02:32:38,081 --> 02:32:35,871
think there's even instance if in the

3259
02:32:39,761 --> 02:32:38,091
Bible I think the doubting Thomas some

3260
02:32:42,341 --> 02:32:39,771
people want to think that it was created

3261
02:32:46,930 --> 02:32:42,351
for for Flying Saucer I I never said it

3262
02:32:49,200 --> 02:32:46,940
was intended for UFO no it is a major

3263
02:32:51,750 --> 02:32:49,210
factor in the way the UFO

3264
02:32:53,760 --> 02:32:51,760
diversity developed that ridicule was

3265
02:32:55,500 --> 02:32:53,770
always attached to it really kills

3266
02:32:58,110 --> 02:32:55,510
attached all kinds of socially

3267
02:33:00,090 --> 02:32:58,120
unacceptable claims that experiences

3268
02:33:02,099 --> 02:33:00,100
UFOs aren't the only one but we're

3269
02:33:04,740 --> 02:33:02,109
talking about UFOs that's why I

3270
02:33:07,380 --> 02:33:04,750
mentioned that in the content ride there

3271
02:33:09,540 --> 02:33:07,390
are some though that think it it was

3272
02:33:12,540 --> 02:33:09,550
part of a government disinformation

3273
02:33:16,290 --> 02:33:12,550
scheme and I think that's a huge

3274
02:33:19,889 --> 02:33:16,300
exaggeration but what do you think about

3275
02:33:21,570 --> 02:33:19,899
that idea that you know besides our

3276
02:33:24,929 --> 02:33:21,580
ridicule there's been a lot of

3277
02:33:27,059 --> 02:33:24,939
exaggeration of a UFO cover-up and just

3278
02:33:29,179 --> 02:33:27,069
what the government knows have you ever

3279
02:33:33,389 --> 02:33:29,189
met someone within the government that

3280
02:33:34,950 --> 02:33:33,399
or in talking to dr. Hynek that you

3281
02:33:37,260 --> 02:33:34,960
thought that there actually was someone

3282
02:33:40,500 --> 02:33:37,270
that had substantial knowledge beyond

3283
02:33:43,170 --> 02:33:40,510
what anyone else has I've met people who

3284
02:33:45,780 --> 02:33:43,180
wanted me to believe they did I think

3285
02:33:48,150 --> 02:33:45,790
that the actual UFO hoaxes are

3286
02:33:51,360 --> 02:33:48,160
relatively rare even the Air Force said

3287
02:33:52,920 --> 02:33:51,370
there was about 1% of stories that the

3288
02:33:55,830 --> 02:33:52,930
Air Force examined that seemed to be

3289
02:33:58,860 --> 02:33:55,840
somebody's conscious fiction and there

3290
02:34:02,280 --> 02:33:58,870
are some subsets of UFO claims where

3291
02:34:04,380 --> 02:34:02,290
there are more hopes as than usual and I

3292
02:34:06,689 --> 02:34:04,390
think that stories of government

3293
02:34:10,080 --> 02:34:06,699
cover-ups and crash saucers and stuff I

3294
02:34:13,110 --> 02:34:10,090
think a lot of that stuff is a conscious

3295
02:34:17,099 --> 02:34:13,120
fiction and if someone tells me that he

3296
02:34:21,030 --> 02:34:17,109
is privy to huge government UFO secrets

3297
02:34:23,670 --> 02:34:21,040
or Hardware bodies you know I just shrug

3298
02:34:26,130 --> 02:34:23,680
it off cuz you know it's just a story

3299
02:34:28,400 --> 02:34:26,140
unless someone can actually prove that

3300
02:34:30,840 --> 02:34:28,410
there's a cover-up in the their bodies

3301
02:34:33,150 --> 02:34:30,850
wreckage it's just not worth listening

3302
02:34:36,360 --> 02:34:33,160
these people because so many of them

3303
02:34:39,179 --> 02:34:36,370
just are proven liars and the rest our

3304
02:34:41,130 --> 02:34:39,189
suspect there's been a suggestion that

3305
02:34:44,340 --> 02:34:41,140
some of the things that came out in the

3306
02:34:46,620 --> 02:34:44,350
80s about abductions and dossie and

3307
02:34:48,750 --> 02:34:46,630
things like that were the things that

3308
02:34:53,300 --> 02:34:48,760
were planted by a government

3309
02:34:55,979 --> 02:34:53,310
disinformation agents and that seems

3310
02:34:57,389 --> 02:34:55,989
implausible to me but I thought your

3311
02:34:59,670 --> 02:34:57,399
views on that would be interesting to

3312
02:35:01,229 --> 02:34:59,680
hear you mean like our Richard Doty I

3313
02:35:03,060 --> 02:35:01,239
didn't want to say his name

3314
02:35:05,011 --> 02:35:03,070
why not

3315
02:35:06,600 --> 02:35:05,021
maybe he'll object to it and want to

3316
02:35:08,941 --> 02:35:06,610
come on the show so we can talk to him

3317
02:35:11,731 --> 02:35:08,951
my impression I'm hardly an authority on

3318
02:35:15,241 --> 02:35:11,741
this but Jordy is just doing a pretty

3319
02:35:19,401 --> 02:35:15,251
low-level guy and I don't know that he

3320
02:35:22,680 --> 02:35:19,411
had for this noble but larger motives

3321
02:35:31,680 --> 02:35:22,690
you know I just you know all I know is

3322
02:35:34,350 --> 02:35:31,690
that stuff sick crap he may be the kind

3323
02:35:37,051 --> 02:35:34,360
of guy that has an overinflated image of

3324
02:35:39,511 --> 02:35:37,061
himself so he puts himself in places

3325
02:35:42,451 --> 02:35:39,521
where maybe he doesn't deserve to be I'm

3326
02:35:45,571 --> 02:35:42,461
just being kind to kind that seems

3327
02:35:49,140 --> 02:35:45,581
reasonable I call it the dark side

3328
02:35:51,930 --> 02:35:49,150
fantasy that's my particular name for it

3329
02:35:54,571 --> 02:35:51,940
but I remember one time it was a big

3330
02:35:57,571 --> 02:35:54,581
thing I'm glad it hasn't been a big

3331
02:36:02,791 --> 02:35:57,581
thing for a long time it survives mostly

3332
02:36:04,651 --> 02:36:02,801
in the x-files Yeah right good point by

3333
02:36:08,011 --> 02:36:04,661
the way I do have a letter from Rick

3334
02:36:10,671 --> 02:36:08,021
Doty dating to early November about him

3335
02:36:16,411 --> 02:36:10,681
being involved in some things including

3336
02:36:17,821 --> 02:36:16,421
exorcism do we start with him no I don't

3337
02:36:20,430 --> 02:36:17,831
know where to go with that I'm just

3338
02:36:22,711 --> 02:36:20,440
gonna drop it okay Jerry Clark please

3339
02:36:25,261 --> 02:36:22,721
tell our listeners before this gets off

3340
02:36:27,631 --> 02:36:25,271
the rails any more than it is where we

3341
02:36:31,051 --> 02:36:27,641
can find more of your stuff my last book

3342
02:36:34,470 --> 02:36:31,061
was published in 2012 and I am just

3343
02:36:37,801 --> 02:36:34,480
about to embark on the third edition of

3344
02:36:39,871 --> 02:36:37,811
my uf1 cyclopædia an item of news this

3345
02:36:42,421 --> 02:36:39,881
seems to be exciting to some people

3346
02:36:44,131 --> 02:36:42,431
which is quite flattering but yes we're

3347
02:36:47,041 --> 02:36:44,141
going to have another book on so it's

3348
02:36:49,801 --> 02:36:47,051
updating by UFO encyclopedia with all

3349
02:36:51,810 --> 02:36:49,811
kinds of new information on old cases

3350
02:36:54,270 --> 02:36:51,820
that's come to light in the last 20

3351
02:36:56,911 --> 02:36:54,280
years plus trying to update with what's

3352
02:36:58,741 --> 02:36:56,921
happened in the last 20 years so it's

3353
02:37:00,180 --> 02:36:58,751
going to be a lot of work and I've got

3354
02:37:02,341 --> 02:37:00,190
some good people who have pledged to

3355
02:37:04,231 --> 02:37:02,351
help me and we're going to have a real

3356
02:37:06,390 --> 02:37:04,241
good book at the end of it when do you

3357
02:37:08,341 --> 02:37:06,400
think it'll be out it's supposed to be

3358
02:37:13,741 --> 02:37:08,351
out in the fall but I haven't since I

3359
02:37:16,360 --> 02:37:13,751
haven't written one word of it yet in

3360
02:37:17,800 --> 02:37:16,370
the spring anyway

3361
02:37:19,929 --> 02:37:17,810
it's going to be a good book not because

3362
02:37:22,240 --> 02:37:19,939
I'm a brilliant genius but because I

3363
02:37:24,490 --> 02:37:22,250
have some brilliant geniuses for helping

3364
02:37:27,370 --> 02:37:24,500
me people like Eddie Bullard and pill

3365
02:37:30,310 --> 02:37:27,380
shocker and Tom saline and people like

3366
02:37:31,840 --> 02:37:30,320
that who are very capable people okay he

3367
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:31,850
doesn't have a sign up yet look you have

3368
02:37:36,160 --> 02:37:34,010
to help them get a website up will force

3369
02:37:40,389 --> 02:37:36,170
him into it Kurt Collins has a website

3370
02:37:42,849 --> 02:37:40,399
which is blue Maury Lorence calm it is

3371
02:37:46,810 --> 02:37:42,859
the ultimate tongue twister blue blurry

3372
02:37:49,570 --> 02:37:46,820
lines calm you find us on Twitter if you

3373
02:37:51,790 --> 02:37:49,580
look for the power cast to para cast fan

3374
02:37:54,490 --> 02:37:51,800
clubs on Facebook the group and the

3375
02:37:56,980 --> 02:37:54,500
community choose the one you like after

3376
02:37:58,719 --> 02:37:56,990
the power cast is our exclusive podcasts

3377
02:38:02,920 --> 02:37:58,729
available only to members of the power

3378
02:38:05,830 --> 02:38:02,930
cast plus also cast box this podcast app

3379
02:38:07,570 --> 02:38:05,840
they're also offering power cast plus

3380
02:38:08,740 --> 02:38:07,580
and they give you more options to pay

3381
02:38:11,920 --> 02:38:08,750
for it I think what you don't get the

3382
02:38:14,230 --> 02:38:11,930
special option to enter our forums but

3383
02:38:15,580 --> 02:38:14,240
otherwise it gives you this shows anyway

3384
02:38:18,219 --> 02:38:15,590
if you want to subscribe to the power

3385
02:38:20,560 --> 02:38:18,229
cast plus direct from us it's plus doff

3386
02:38:23,620 --> 02:38:20,570
the power cast comm for more info plus

3387
02:38:26,290 --> 02:38:23,630
dot the power cast comm and we also give

3388
02:38:27,639 --> 02:38:26,300
you a version of the show free of the

3389
02:38:30,130 --> 02:38:27,649
network heads in better quality audio

3390
02:38:32,770 --> 02:38:30,140
Kurt Collins has been my guest co-host

3391
02:38:35,020 --> 02:38:32,780
thanks again Kurt he'll return after the

3392
02:38:36,550 --> 02:38:35,030
power cast with some surprises Jerry

3393
02:38:39,370 --> 02:38:36,560
Clark thank you for joining us on the

3394
02:38:41,350 --> 02:38:39,380
powertest thank you for having me and

3395
02:38:53,590 --> 02:38:41,360
fun as always

3396
02:38:59,990 --> 02:38:57,109
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3397
02:39:02,979 --> 02:39:00,000
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3398
02:39:06,710 --> 02:39:02,989
presentation of making the impossible